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Old 02-26-11, 04:19PM   #31
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[quote=twinturrbo406;385265]....... the first thing, is this car had 330cfm heads on it prior to your new setup with the CV-1 heads, correct ?? From what i remember, maybe i'm off, but i think that's what i was told, please correct if not accurate ? If so, the same performance, even with a better flowing cylinder head ?? I would say, from the outside looking in anyways, that the problem was there before the swap ....
...... 330cfm heads in that type of setup, should run much better then that ..... whether they are CV-1's, KRE's, or E-Heads ..... something is surely not happy, hard for me to say exactly what from behind my keyboard, but that was just the first thing that came to mind ..... the throttle body is a bit over kill for that C.I. also, why so big ?? Have you checked the phase on the camshaft ?? More information is surely needed ...... have you done the basics like compression test and a leakdown test ?? I'd start from the bottom, and work my way up ...... dyno tuning would tell you a bunch i think .....[/quote]

Question: if a guy came to you with a a 462 CI and said I want to run your CV-1 head. I already have a 330 cfm head with a 225-230 cc port and the head flows 330 cfm.

Would you sell him a 380 cfm head with a 280 cc port, or would you tell him, No !

See this is the part I don't get...some where this guy was mislead. I mean isn't that the reason you came up with the 235 cc 255 cc 275 cc up to a 325 cc port.
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Old 02-26-11, 04:32PM   #32
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[QUOTE=Gach;385570]Question: if a guy came to you with a a 462 CI and said I want to run your CV-1 head. I already have a 330 cfm head with a 225-230 cc port and the head flows 330 cfm.

Would you sell him a 380 cfm head with a 280 cc port, or would you tell him, No !

See this is the part I don't get...some where this guy was mislead. I mean isn't that the reason you came up with the 235 cc 255 cc 275 cc up to a 325 cc port.[/QUOTE]

The reason for the different ports are for those who are afraid of larger ports. The Pontiac world is too used to crushed straws for ports sizes. The issue is that something is amiss in his tuning on the efi, and or cam timing, who knows which or both. But i can tell you the cam is fine for the heads and a cam that size with the heads will make a hell of alot more than he is showing powerwise. If a smaller cam in a smaller engine made over 600hp with the same heads, why is his not?
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Old 02-26-11, 04:37PM   #33
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[QUOTE]Question: if a guy came to you with a a 462 CI and said I want to run your CV-1 head. I already have a 330 cfm head with a 225-230 cc port and the head flows 330 cfm.

Would you sell him a 380 cfm head with a 280 cc port, or would you tell him, No !

[/QUOTE]


LOL....you didn't answer the question...your dancing around and making excuses. No tuning or cam phasing is going to change the facts....would you sell him the CV-1.
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Old 02-26-11, 04:42PM   #34
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If he wants more power than the 330 heads can make, then why not? The fact is the issue is not in the heads. Look, if it ran exactly the same e.t., then the fuel system is only making so much hp and it quits. Mapping a efi is not easy. There are efi tuners out there that could do wonders for it tho.
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Old 02-26-11, 05:03PM   #35
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[quote=GET IT ON;385577]If he wants more power than the 330 heads can make, then why not? [/quote]

Well this tells me is that your compeletly clue less. So tell me then, whats the reason behind them making the CV-1 a smaller port 235 cc...why bother..just sell anyone who wants to build a 428-455 the 280 cc port.
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Old 02-26-11, 05:09PM   #36
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Which head would make more power one with 268 fpc @ .700 lift or one with 300 fpc @ .700 lift. given the same flow numbers across the board. Which one would you put on your steet engine.

PS: how much cfm will a 4.185 bore support.
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Old 02-26-11, 05:43PM   #37
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Gach, are you saying that he would've been better off buying ported Highports?
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Old 02-26-11, 06:00PM   #38
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[QUOTE=SDTempest;385582]Gach, are you saying that he would've been better off buying ported Highports?[/QUOTE]

Definitely.
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Old 02-26-11, 06:31PM   #39
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[QUOTE=Gach;385579]Well this tells me is that your compeletly clue less. So tell me then, whats the reason behind them making the CV-1 a smaller port 235 cc...why bother..just sell anyone who wants to build a 428-455 the 280 cc port.[/QUOTE]

First thing Lou is it's not the head! There is something is seriously wrong with Fine69 build or tune! PERIOD!! The CV-1 cross sectional area is around 3.1".(BTW a 454 BBC stock oval head port is about the same!) MINIMUM X-sect area NEEDED for a 462'' is 2.8" @ 6700RPM. Did you forget Bnick166 engine build! 463"- 260/268 @ .050" Solid Roller .731"lift - 11.1:1 [ATTACH]23917[/ATTACH]compression.....705HP@7100RPM![eek]. It is obvious to me Fine69 needs a warmer solid roller with at least .700 '' net lift and more compression. He also needs a GOOD tuner familiar with EFI! I say strap that Bird to a chassis dyno and run it like you stole it! Internet T/shooting without more info like cam specs, static comp, dynamic compression, EFI diagnostics etc, etc.. is just like pissing into the wind!!IMO
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Old 02-26-11, 06:37PM   #40
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Let's put it this way, if a guy came to me with this combination in a 3200 lb car, and only runing 12.40's

[QUOTE]
I built a 462 motor with the out of the box CV-1 heads, FAST XFI fuel injection, a Tremec 5 speed OD tranny and a 3.75:1 rear gear, the cam is a 253/265 @ .050 .620 lift. The issue is that after the significant investment of building a CV motor, I didn't see any performance increase, the car still only runs a 12.4 1/4 and it's really embarrassing. I am using 65lb injectors, 1375 cfm throttle body, 93 octane and I can't seem to put my finger on the magic go fast button, any ideas out there?
[/QUOTE]

The first thing I would have said to him, is you need to work out what you have, because there's no reason why you can't make 704 hp with what you already have, or come pretty damn close. I surely wouldn't be selling him a set of CV-1's with much bigger ports. Specially if he can't make what he has run. I mean a 3200 lb car with what he has already, if science out should run easy mid 10 seconds. I would've told him some thing is really wrong with your combination and going to CV-1 heads aren't going to help.
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Old 02-26-11, 06:48PM   #41
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[quote=milepost;385584]First thing Lou is it's not the head! There is something is seriously wrong with Fine69 build or tune! PERIOD!! The CV-1 cross sectional area is around 3.1".(BTW a 454 BBC stock oval head port is about the same!) MINIMUM X-sect area NEEDED for a 462'' is 2.8" @ 6700RPM. Did you forget Bnick166 engine build! 463"- 260/268 @ .050" Solid Roller .731"lift - 11.1:1 [ATTACH]23917[/ATTACH]compression.....705HP@7100RPM![eek]. It is obvious to me Fine69 needs a warmer solid roller with at least .700 '' net lift and more compression. He also needs a GOOD tuner familiar with EFI! I say strap that Bird to a chassis dyno and run it like you stole it! Internet T/shooting without more info like cam specs, static comp, dynamic compression, EFI diagnostics etc, etc.. is just like pissing into the wind!!IMO[/quote]

The cross sectional area is much bigger then that, at least it was on my out of the box CV-1. Bnick heads only flowed 360 cfm and had a smaller cross sectional area. Look at my first post, first thing I said was the cam is to small not enough lift. What piss me off is when guys try and cover up the obvious with excuses. Look at Bnick .731 lift. The whole point is, the first thing I would have said to this guy, is you need to get what you have straighten out, definitely wouldn't be selling this guy a set of CV-1.
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Old 02-26-11, 06:55PM   #42
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[quote=milepost;385584]First thing Lou is it's not the head! There is something is seriously wrong with Fine69 build or tune! PERIOD!! The CV-1 cross sectional area is around 3.1".(BTW a 454 BBC stock oval head port is about the same!) MINIMUM X-sect area NEEDED for a 462'' is 2.8" @ 6700RPM. Did you forget Bnick166 engine build! 463"- 260/268 @ .050" Solid Roller .731"lift - 11.1:1 [ATTACH]23917[/ATTACH]compression.....705HP@7100RPM![eek]. It is obvious to me Fine69 needs a warmer solid roller with at least .700 '' net lift and more compression. He also needs a GOOD tuner familiar with EFI! I say strap that Bird to a chassis dyno and run it like you stole it! Internet T/shooting without more info like cam specs, static comp, dynamic compression, EFI diagnostics etc, etc.. is just like pissing into the wind!!IMO[/quote]

As cast gen1 CV-1 had a minimum CSA of 3.24" which in my opinion (hasn't changed much in 3 years) is way too big for a street 462 that will not see extreme RPM.

Comparing it to a BBC doesn't really work since they have a much larger bore, shorter rod, and less stroke. That short rod gets shit moving through the port.
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Old 02-26-11, 07:02PM   #43
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[quote=SDTempest;385588]As cast gen1 CV-1 had a minimum CSA of 3.24" which in my opinion (hasn't changed much in 3 years) is way too big for a street 462 that will not see extreme RPM.

Comparing it to a BBC doesn't really work since they have a much larger bore, shorter rod, and less stroke. That short rod gets shit moving through the port.[/quote]

Your right, and that's the reason they came up with the smaller port ( cross sectional area ) and only a 235 cc runner.
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Old 02-26-11, 07:07PM   #44
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So why did you even bring up the CV-1 port size issue Lou? It's obvious something else is wrong! The heads weren't his problem! Sure a set of SD 340CFM E-heads performance heads would have probably worked just as well too! If fine69 has plans in the future for NOS, or a blower, or a stroker kit and maybe even an IAII block then there his choice of the CV-1 heads were the best bang for the buck IMO. He has a problem! (probably several) to fix. There was an old street racer as I was growing up that told me - "Son, half the work I do fixing my car is because of half the work I do fixing my car...!" BTW High Ports wouldn't fix his problem either, now would it? As I said before it not the heads! So let's try to give the guy a hand fixing his problem and quit debating on his choice of heads already! Man, to many "Drama Queens"[rolleyes] around here!
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Old 02-26-11, 07:16PM   #45
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[QUOTE=SDTempest;385588]As cast gen1 CV-1 had a minimum CSA of 3.24" which in my opinion (hasn't changed much in 3 years) is way too big for a street 462 that will not see extreme RPM.

Comparing it to a BBC doesn't really work since they have a much larger bore, shorter rod, and less stroke. That short rod gets shit moving through the port.[/QUOTE]

I stand corrected on the CSA. I pretty sure that Bnick's heads were standard (large) out of the box heads with a very good valve and sandroll job on the ports. BTW- So your saying Bnick166 build was all wrong? I think not! I think Uncle Tony would agree that the numbers speak for themselves!! How is this going to fix fine69's problem? Quit debating cylinder heads and keep on the topic![damn]. Wallace calculators and the like are tools not the golden rule. There are a lot of Ford and Chevy small blocks out there with 2.7" to 3.1" c.s.area heads on 408 - 427 cu in motors making over 700 hp on pump gas. This IS a 462 cu inch motor were talking about, right?

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