Vortech on a stock bottom end?

Josh69 · 02-11-08, 03:33PM

I hear Vortech is coming out with an 'S' trim blower kit for our Ponchos.

Could I get by on the stock bottom end with 6-8psi? I bought my '69 Firebird with no miles on the rebuilt original motor, and since my body shop took about 4 months longer to finish it, I don't feel like pulling it just to tear it apart until next winter at this point. I have too much work to do on the rest of the car to get it ready by spring.

It's a rebuilt Pontiac 350, bored .030, stock replacement type pistons, moly rings, Crane 274 cam, small headers, Performer intake, etc. Crank ground .010, and I assume it's stock rods and hardware throughout. Original #47 heads with new valves/springs and hardened seats, 78-80cc I've read, so around 8.5:1 compression I think.

Gach · 02-11-08, 05:31PM

If you can keep the rpms down it'll handle it. Those stock rods in
a 350 motor are probably good up to 6200 rpms, push it past that
rpm point just a few times and you'll have a bushel basket full of
motor parts. I'd short shift it like around 5500 rpms...the best
shifter in the world can shift with in 200 rpms..so shift early.

turbo69BIRD · 02-12-08, 12:00AM

I boosted an engine similar to that if check old posts.
It was in my car for my wedding. I had popped the 428 and wanted tget it up and running and borrowed an engine. The engine is in my brother in laws 67 firebird right now still going strong.

turbo69BIRD · 02-12-08, 12:06AM

Gach, I think you need to watch the profanity in your posts. LOL

Gach · 02-12-08, 12:30AM

I see it..funny isn't it...turns into shit if you leave out the f

Pontiac Dude · 02-12-08, 08:29AM

http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiacdude428/ATI.html

turbo69BIRD · 02-12-08, 09:51AM

See that you even have a supercharger guru to hook you up.

Who knows the ins and out of a supercharger on a poncho than someone who has run them on thier own cars.

Josh69 · 02-12-08, 11:02AM

Thanks for giving me some piece of mind...I've been fretting over what to do and how far to get into this thing and spring is rapidly approaching.

Would I be fine with the stock rod bolts as well if I shift it in the mid-5K range?

I'll most likely tear it down in full next winter or build up a 400 for it. I was going to stroke the motor, but I have reservations about spending that dough on a 350, so at least this way I start with the boost and build my way up. I've had a number of Turbo cars, so I'm a certified boost junkie!! This will be my first blower, and it's by far my most intensive build of a car so I'm learning alot as I go. My last turbo was a stock Audi S4 with the 2.7L TT. Not that exciting, but there is nothing like the rush of forced induction! I'm not real worried about the future of the 350, just worried about having to tear it down mid-summer.

I would love to do a turbo, but I don't have the fabrication skills necessary I'm afraid....though learning to weld would probably be a good idea.

Thanks for the link Pontiacdude, I'll be checking that out in earnest!

flynbrian · 02-12-08, 03:02PM

I saw that article on the new blower for Pontiacs in the April issue of Hot-Rod magazine....I wasnt impressed with the tiny numbers for improvement...Seriously. They showed some guy's red GTO with a 400 and said it only had 189 RWHP when they started....I thought that was pitiful. It picked up less than 100 horsepower with the blower...

I was not impressed...I have heard of many guy's MIFFED BAD at Vortech because their Mustangs didnt act like the animals expected....Especially for the money spent.

JY TURBO SETUP!!!!! Since you got the low comp and mild cam....TURBO it! Use some stock exhaust manifolds too since you got d-port heads!

flynbrian · 02-12-08, 03:04PM

BTW, My car is putting out 350 RWHP N/A which is more than that GTO in the Magazine with its Vortech....

And I am sticking my 76mm on that motor soon!

Pontiac Dude · 02-12-08, 03:35PM

The worlds fastest belt driven Centrifigul supercharger cars are ATI powered.

flynbrian · 02-12-08, 04:09PM

ATI Procharger is twice the unit over a Vortech....But you gotta admit its nice someone is thinking about the Pontiac Niche...

I like the sound of a Procharger waaaaay better too...But I think the turbo is still a couple steps above the Procharger for sure.

Josh69 · 02-12-08, 04:28PM

What's a JY Turbo setup? How are you guys routing the the hot side from the factory manifolds? I currently don't have a set, just the little Hedmans that came with it.

Is the Procharger louder? I'd want the blower whine....my last street car was a '69 Camaro with a tunnel ram and Pete Jackson gear drive...had the sound, but nothing to back it up!

Gach · 02-12-08, 05:53PM

69BadBird ran 9.10's with his F2 blow through...10.5 radio tired.
I see 8's this year with no problem.

$3995.00 for the F2 and add another $1000.00 for the right carburetor.
That's $5000.00. Uh maybe next year or a second mortgage this year.

Because I know nothing when and if I'd buy the whole deal from
P-Dude just so I can keep him on the phone and away from getting
any work done....LOL Make some else suffer who's waiting to get
a motor done

Gach · 02-12-08, 05:54PM

A turbo kit is needed real bad for a Pontiac kind of like a bolt on deal
that didn't cost and arm and a leg.

turbo69BIRD · 02-13-08, 05:29PM

A JY turbo set up is just a Junk yard set up.

Or a DIY do it yourself.

What these guys are saying I think is that a turbo set up can be had cheap becasue you can buy used parts. Because you build it yourself you can set it on KILL!!
Most Blower set ups a are plagued by the fact that the MFG doesn't want to have warantee issues or Lawsuits for blown engines etc. so most are far from set on KILL They are rather conservative.

THats why many are unahppy.
I wouldn't neccessarily blame the blower(supercharger). If set up properly they WILL make the power!

I personally like the turbo beacuse its easier once set up to adjust for what you are doing. No pulleys to change etc. Jsut a turn of the knob and add some race gas and your flying. The best set up would be to run two fule cells and an electric diverter to switch tanks.
Turn the boost knob switch the tank and go racing. switch back kill off the boost and drive home on 87 octane. what could be better.

Gach · 02-13-08, 08:31PM

So with a turbo you eliminate the need for a carburetor...
what do you use in it's place ? Do you have to fab and intake ?
What does a typical DIY turbo set up cost ?

Pontiac Dude · 02-13-08, 09:09PM

They blow thru carbs with turbos too. I think there is a DR stock suspension car that has been into the 7's with a blow thru carb turbo.

You still have to have fuel injected somewhere and throttle plate assembly to control rpm.

The only difference between a turbo and a centrifigul supercharger is one is exh driven. the other with a belt.

The supercharger is more efficient (as a unit) as you don't have heat loss thru heat tranfer of a turbo shaft.

Let the debate begin.

Gach · 02-13-08, 09:17PM

Dude all this time and I never realize the difference between the two.
sounds like allot of heat with a turbo vs a supercharge...when it comes
to both I don't have a clue...good information. I know guys talk like
everyone knows exactly what their talking about...not meant as a refection on anyone talking turbo's or superchargers.

turbo69BIRD · 02-13-08, 11:04PM

That is a great debate. I am not going o get involved in that one though.
Turbos do create alot of heat and superchargers do rob crank HP. which is more????

I will not pretend to have done the testing or the math to support either one.

I will say I like turbos for alot of other reasons over superchargers for my firebird.

However, there are other applications I would most definately choose a supercharger.