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Old 06-27-15, 04:18AM   #1
gtofreek
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Default Dynoed a 455 tonight, numbers inside.

A couple years ago, we fixed an engine someone else built, that had issues. Here is a link to the original post.

http://pontiaczone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29301

It had a 236/244 Isky cam in it, but the customer didn't like the idle, and other aspects of that cam. He pulled the engine out, and brought it back to get a smaller cam installed. He told me he wanted a smooth idle, lots of vacuum, torque, and didn't want to rev it over 5000 RPM! He also wanted to dyno it. I installed the BOP one piece oil pan gasket he brought in, also. His car has a Tremic 5 speed, and a 3.23 rear.

Here is the combo.

Mid 70's 455 block and crank
1968 #16 heads[9.2:1 compression]
KP Hypereutectic pistons with a 30.5 cc step dish
5140 Tomahawk rods
Stock iron Q-jet intake with Q-jet carb of unknown origin, rebuilt
Scorpion aluminum roller rockers
Lunati VooDoo HFT cam, 227/233 @ .050", 268/276 adv., ground on a 110 LSA[off the shelf part]
RA exhaust manifolds with 2 1/4" outlets
MSD distributor, 36 total timing[made best power here]

First pull yielded only 370 HP, and 486 FT. LBS. Suspicious, I check to see if we were getting full throttle. Turns out we weren't at all. The secondaries, were only opening maybe halfway. I readjusted the linkage, and we got full throttle. A/F numbers were really lean also. We made a pull, and the power came up quite a bit. A/F ratio was still lean, so we made some adjustment, and it got better. A/F was still in the 14's to low 15's in some spots, but since this engine is going to be run at an altitude twice what it is here, we left it there, since it will fatten up in the higher elevation. We probably could have got another 10 HP or so if we dialed in the carb, but then he would have to readjust it when he got it back, so we left it where it was. Here is what it did. Not bad for a small cam, and low compression. No signs of detonation on 91 octane pump gas. Normally, I wouldn't put a cam this small in a 455, but customer wanted smooth, and torquey, so he gets it!

RPM_____Torque_____HP
1800_____444______152
1900_____450______163
2000_____454______173
2100_____460______184
2200_____469______197
2300_____481______211
2400_____492______225
2500_____498______237
2600_____497______246
2700_____499______257
2800_____501______267
2900_____510______281
3000_____518______296
3100_____525______310
3200_____528*_____322
3300_____525______330
3400_____522______338
3500_____521______347
3600_____518______355
3700_____516______363
3800_____512______371
3900_____510______379
4000_____506______385
4100_____495______386
4200_____490______392
4300_____482______395
4400_____474______397
4500_____466______399
4600_____459______402*
4700_____449______401
4800_____438______400
4900_____428______399
5000_____420______400
5100_____412______400
5200_____402______399
5300_____394______397
5400_____381______392
5500_____368______386
5600_____354______378
5700_____350______380


Basically from 2700-4000 RPM, it made right around 500 ft. lbs. or more, and from 4500-5200 RPM it made right around 400 HP or more, but carried the power out even further than I had expected for such a small cam[still made 380 HP at 5700 RPM, only 22 down from peak].
Also, at 1800 RPM, it made the same torque as a stock 400 made from 3200-3600 RPM, depending on the configuration! Ought to be a nice cruiser engine. BSFC numbers were mainly in the .4's, with most being .42-.44 range.
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Old 06-27-15, 12:49PM   #2
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Paul,
If you look at 1800 to 5200 average torque is 482. Very nice

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Old 06-27-15, 01:30PM   #3
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Now that's what I call a stump puller!
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Old 06-27-15, 01:31PM   #4
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Sure would like more info on the intake & carb. I can,t see why it won,t idle smooth???? Got any picture,s of the set-up engine??? Love to take a look at it.With that cam id figure about 400 h.p between 4600 and 5700 h.p. drops off.. hummmm. Good luck with motor , keep us informed of progress.
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Old 06-27-15, 01:57PM   #5
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What I meant was he didn't like the "choppy idle of the Isky cam. Not that the engine idled rough. It still idled smooth, just choppy. As he put it in his own words, "I'm an old man Paul. Now I just want a nice, smooth[non-choppy] idle".

These Voodoo cams really make a broader power band than the cam specs would suggest. That's why we use them, and other Harold cams, pretty much exclusively.
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Old 06-27-15, 09:47PM   #6
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This engine blows away a 462 I know of that has hydraulic roller stump puller and aluminum heads.
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Old 06-27-15, 11:37PM   #7
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In order to get numbers down to 1800 RPM, the dyno operator made two, back to back pulls. One getting data running up to 5700 RPM or so, but since it's hard to drive an engine with this much torque, it's hard to load it down to 1800, while trying to go to full throttle. So this pull started at 3200 RPM or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIA4...ature=youtu.be

Then he made another pull right away, but this time he started at over 4000 RPM, and applied water, to slow the engine down to 1800 RPM, while recording data in the reverse direction. Then the computer averaged both runs out, and gave these numbers. Each pull was real close, within 3-4 HP and torque of each other. Here is the video pulling it in reverse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYPf...ature=youtu.be
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Old 06-28-15, 06:17PM   #8
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strong street motor...nice job
are those Tomahawk rods made in China ?
if so, naughty naughty.....
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Old 06-28-15, 07:59PM   #9
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My god, that's a killer, take anywhere daily driver..Awesome Paul. I like !
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Old 06-28-15, 09:19PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedo View Post
strong street motor...nice job
are those Tomahawk rods made in China ?
if so, naughty naughty.....
Really
Who actually has a USA rod that's not $1100
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Old 06-28-15, 11:10PM   #11
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The cost of this sport/hobby is huge and the more people playing in it is supposed to get costs down.
I get the part about affordable parts for the enthusiast on a budget in order to keep the dream alive.
But if all the current U.S. manufactuers of speed parts go 100% outsource there will be no domestic prices for the off shore producers to undercut and one will eventually see the prices on all the low ball parts go way up.
R&D for a lot of the companies sourcing look alike speed products out of China and other lands is non existant.R&D to them means "Rob & Duplicate".
Either that or a trusted industry name gets bought and its production gets moved out of country.

Current Howards - offerings of powdered metal rods are competively priced but they are not offered in a Pontiac journal size or length yet.
http://www.howardscams.com/howards2015.pdf



Want the best steel rods for your engine?
CP/Carillo offers a Pontiac rod & will custom make anything you want.
They will even put your brand name or initials on it.
http://www.cp-carrillo.com/Portals/0...CPCarrillo.pdf

Crower
http://www.crower.com/master-catalog/

If you are going big time nitrous , boosted , alky or fuel you'd best be prepared to be putting high quality aluminum rods in it. That's $$$$.
Miller,GRP etc.
Plenty USA companies makin' those too.

Guys will bitch about the cost of a set of USA made rods then will turn right around and will blow way more money on paint , chrome and other eye candy.
Spend the money on the rotating assembly where it counts the most.
Engine explosions can really F'up a nice paint job.
Especially when you run over your own oil and get into the wall. LOL
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Old 07-01-15, 04:13PM   #12
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Not suggesting cost factor not be considered but rod weight can (should?) also be a important part of your decision. I considered a Crower Sportsman rod, but choose a similar lighter Eagle rod on my last build for this factor alone. Some will disagree.
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Old 07-02-15, 12:20AM   #13
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What was the weight difference in between the two?
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Old 07-02-15, 12:33AM   #14
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Ouch, have to say I don't remember as it was when I did my current 505 dyno'd in 2009. I have it written down somewhere. The rods are Eagle "ESP" H-beam w/bolt upgrade / 6.8". The prior 462 had Carrillo 6.625" steel rods, these I bought many years ago and used them in 3 different engines.
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Old 07-02-15, 01:36AM   #15
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I have balance sheets at work that have those Crower sportsman rods on it. Also have sheets with the Eagle rods. If I think about it tomorrow, I will look them up.
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