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Old 11-04-19, 02:41PM   #46
sprint250
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The gasoline companies, pipeline operators and refinery operators track every gallon produced and trans shipped. They track it that close.

But none of these industry experts can tell you exactly why the prices fluctuate like crazy. They always lay it off on some obscure bullshit reason.
The speculators in the commodities markets are what drives the fuel prices up, that and the orchestrated/ fake supply shortages.
The price for gasoline goes up over night for stuff that is already in storage tanks in the ground at the gas station. The high priced "new fuel has not even been shipped yet! LOL
Same goes for crude oil that is already in transit across the ocean in tankers. That oil was pumped up to a month ago yet magically it goes up in price before it gets to its destination.

If we conserved on our fuel consumption, our cars got 100 MPG they would charge us $25 a gallon for fuel because the people at the top of the oil profit pyramid are still gonna make their margin.

The states already have taxes ready to go for people with electric cars because they can see the tax revenue for gasoline shrinking.
Electric vehicle owners will be taxed on annual miles driven.
Passing through another state, there will be a pass through toll/tax of some sort.
The batteries will be extremely expensive because of the "hazardous waste disposal fees associated with them. Their will be a two tiered KWH rate . One for home use & one for charging your car. Remember when satellite TV was virtually free? LOL
Same goes with the water companies. They make their money selling water so when you "conserve water" what happens. THE RATES GO UP AND THEY ARE ENCOURAGING DEVELOPMENT FOR NEW METERED SUBSCRIBERS.
You can't get even with these schemes.

State of California will F' up PG&E worse than PG&E did. State can't even keep up with the maintenance on their own state owned facilities , dams ,parks and any thing else we own. The would just sub out the operations to some third party management company for a cut.
The state ,US U&ME, cannot begin to cover the legacy costs of PG&E.
We would be rate payers plus subsidizing all those special hidden costs of cleaning up the mess. Just like the S&L ,bank bailouts & GM bailout.
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Old 11-04-19, 04:46PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Gach View Post
So that’s what Trump meant when he said he wouldn’t give them any money and the F’ing cry baby’s criticize him for it. So basically ( now it’s well known) what the cruse of Fire’s. Isn’t them cutting power to all those customers like admitting
It’s actually their fault. Not a word from media.
Its about more than that. The CA logging restrictions are horrible. I have a buddy who has 70 acres of very nice forest land. His parents bought it in the 60s for 35K. They have 3 homes built on it with lumber they cut and milled themselves before the regulations dot so bad. One is a mini mansion, Victorian style. They have done some logging over the years. Once got 40,000$ for one tree. (that same old growth redwood would go for way over 100K today)
But they are not rich. Car people too. I know most of what I know about cars from this man. He was my auto shop teacher in high school. Smartest guy I know, or one of them. Got me ouf of a lot of car problems over the phone. He was only about 6 years older than us in high school so he was more one us us than anything. Still friends to this day.
Well if you live in a forest the forest is always trying to well, become a forest. They will eat your home up if you do not trim it all back. Big fire danger.
This past year he had to to some fuel removal because of the fire danger. It had been 10-15 years since they last logged. He tried to get companies in to log the land in a few spots. Cut brush and all that. But it is 8,000-14,000$ just to file a small logging plan and you STILL might not get it approved. So many hoops to jump through you would not believe it.
It was cheaper for him to call in a tree service to cut and have it all chipped up. Chipped up saw logs that could have been ran through a mill and people homes built with it.
And we have enviro land owners who think cutting ANY tree is bad. They won't let PG&E on/through their property to cut back around the power lines.
20 years ago my friend had a old PG&E guy and his property doing maintenance on one of the power poles. The guy told him PG&E was going to go bankrupt. See, every power pole that has a transformer on it is a fire danger. If they short circuit they can drop fire right through a hole in them somewhere. Well there was a fix for it. A ceramic disc they could install to keep the fire contained and not dropping on the ground. Cost 100$ per transformer for the part then labor. But PG&E did not go through with installing them on every transformer like they should have. All about greed and the shareholders.
Now we have the state burning down every fall before the rains. We have had electricity in Nor Cal for 120 years and it did not start burning down till recently. Its man caused for sure. And its not "climate change" either. PG&E got cheap, regulators of them and the forest over regulated, people built homes in forests and grasslands and the courts thought they could just make PG&E pay for all of it.
These blackouts are just a big F#CK YOU to from PG&E to California regulators and we are paying for it. Plenty of blame to go around.
But its what you get when Democrats control a whole state and the cities. I used to love to go down to San Francisco. The warf area was cool. The city has got to be the most beautiful big city in the nation. But it is now a $h!tho!e. Cops do not even show up if your car windows get smashed and everything stolen. Its a epidemic there. That and human feces on the street.
Now that we have let millions of illegals pour into our once best state in the union I do not see it changing anytime soon. So many hard working people are leaving. And we are left with the filthy rich and the illegals and bums who do not want to work. Middle class is fleeing in droves.
BTW, my friend bought a second home in Oregon. Registers all his cars up there as it is about 1000$ just to register a new truck here. Even my 12 year old Tundra is 350$ And in Oregon it cost 500$ to file a logging plan and you can clear cut if you want.
Rant over for today.
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Old 11-05-19, 02:24AM   #48
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Lou,
The Three biggest power companies in California are:
Pacific Gas & Electric
Southern California Edison (Sempra Energy)
San Diego Gas & Electric(Sempra Energy)
Those 3 companies have been in business for ell over 100 years each.
They have made BILLIONS & BILLIONS of dollars off of the rate payers and yet they always cry how they cannot make ends meet. Where did all the money go?
Look at the stock holder pay outs and the executive salaries.
All 3 have almost totally divested themselves of any major centralized power generation plants inside the state . In many cases they sold their old plants off to third party operators who eventually close them down if it is uneconomical to modernize them. Then the property is sold off to developers if it is not a toxic waste cleanup site.
Much of the power they sell is imported off the grid and they have small "peaker" plants that fire up /go online to help carry the load during times of high demand.
They joint venture on some coal fired plants that are out of state.
The nuclear plants in San Onofre (SD County) reactors 1,2 &3 are shut down. #1 because of its age & #2 because SCE/SDG&E/Sempra screwed up on the reactor heat exchanger upgrades that were supposed to extend the life of those 2 reactors for another 20 years. Instead they created leaks in the reactors that forced the shutdowns and they got fined by the NRC for deviating from the NRC approved design. General Electric made the non compliant heat exchangers.
Guess who got stuck with the legacy cost of deactivating the plants? The rate payers.
Humbolt Bay Nuclear Plant #3 is shut down/closed.
Rancho Seco Nuclear plant is shut down/closed.
Diablo Canyon is the only active nuclear plant in California now.

There are 44 active hydroelectric generating stations big and small in the state .

Lots of other smaller power plants and alternative energy plants that are on the grid now.
That does not even account for all the roof top solar panels that feed power power back on to the grid during daylight hours and private co generation facilities at small steam and chiller plants for high rise buildings , hospitals & some large college/university campuses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._in_California
There is no way the "government" of the state of California could even begin to manage or maintain any of this.
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Old 11-05-19, 07:50PM   #49
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Unbelievable isn’t it. Here in state of RI, governor ( Rimando ) sp She was a big Wall Street hedge fund before she got elected governor. Some cat from Maryland donated $2 million to her campaign.

The State has founded that I can count 12 huge Solar farms, guess who owns the companies doing the Solar farms, you got it, some Wall Street cat, mostly likely one of her Wall Street buddy’s.

When a College student asked her, were’s all the electricity goes to from Solar Farms her answer to power companies, but here’s the kicker the College student asked then why have rates gone up twice last two years.
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Old 11-05-19, 09:10PM   #50
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Sprint250 good read.
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Old 11-17-19, 01:10AM   #51
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Gach,
One of the biggest scams going is the federally subsidized "solar tax credit" for putting solar panels on your roof.
The sales companies pushing this claim that they are working as sub contractors for the power companies. Some even make the claim that you need to act now before the government makes it mandatory for all homes to have roof top solar panels.Total crap.

Just like with the solar water heater scam of the 1970's & 1980's as soon as the government rebate program ended these companies were gone with the wind.
I have been called out to many homes to remove malfunctioning solar hot water systems because they were just too expensive to repair. Just put in a simple water heater.
State agencies and local building codes do not require solar hot water systems for new construction.
Solar hot water was and still is a very good idea if done correctly and maintained.
The power companies don't make a dime off it, they actually lose money on solar hot water because the savings goes directly to the end user.

Roof top solar panels on the other hand the systems are designed to put power directly back on the grid which the power companies sell back to the rate payers. The residences and businesses that are putting power back on to the grid get a "cookie/rate reduction" for doing so as long as they put more power back in than they use.
So getting back to the companies hawking the roof top solar collector systems they were inflating the costs 2x and then pitching it to the prospective sales mark with "you are going to get 1/2 that money back through the government rebate program.
So they are literally bilking the government for the full cost of the solar system. No over sight there.The rebate lake is full of fish.
The joke about the rebate program is that you do not instantly get a check for "1/2 the cost" the next tax year. The rebate is amortized over a period of several years or the life of the loan you had to take out to pay for the system if you got on the hook for it.
Then they sell the home owner financing for the 2x the cost plus interest over the life of the loan. Even if you get your own financing you end up with a variable interest rate home equity line of credit that usually has a higher rate.
So the real money is in the financing that gets written.
Anywhere from 12 grand to 25 grand over the life of the loan 5 to ten years.
Shit will be broken down before it's paid for itself.
So the the kicker is all these solar systems that they are selling do not charge batteries at the home that can be used to run inverters to keep your place powered up when the power goes out.
All you are doing is feeding power back on to the grid for the benefit of the power company.
Technically the roof top solar panels should be owned & maintained by the power company. They should be leasing the space on your roof and rewarding you with reduced rates or a check each month for granting them the privilege to use that space for power generation.
If you go stand alone with battery back up and a generator the power companies do not make a dime. You do not need them at night for power as long as you have a high efficiency system and enough battery capacity.
In fact if you are stand alone but still have a meter and automatic transfer switch they want to charge you a "grid access stand by charge" even if you don't use 1watt of power from them in a month or a year.
So when the solar hucksters come to my neighborhood selling the "package deal" (that usually includes a new roof that is not part of the system) the first thing I ask them is "if the power goes down will my lights stay on" hang on and get ready for a lot of bullshit answers. LOL
Next question is " so if the power company needs this so bad why are they not picking up the tab for the full cost of the install and just paying me for using the roof space" More bullshit answers.
Now some of the systems hawkers are actually acting as third party operators and doing just that.
They will install ,own & maintain the system and rebate back to you some of the money they make selling the power back on to the grid. Its a split but at least you are not responsible for financing ,owning or maintaining the system. That's closer to what it should be if you do not care to go standalone /off the grid.
I have a neighbor that did one like that and he's happy with it so far.
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Old 11-17-19, 01:21PM   #52
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i have a friend that is a PM for a large commercial solar contractor. says he wouldn't install solar on his own house. You cant make the money back in your lifetime and the equipment is just like all other china junk that has a limited life. many of the residential installers are fly by night and when you have a problem they are no where to be found.
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Old 11-17-19, 02:35PM   #53
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A friend installed it, with all the panels and battery’s came to $7500.00. Did it himself. The battery’s a good for about 6 to 8 years. his light bill on average was ( just for rounded off numbers) was $100.00 a month. Has a total of 1600 watts. Powers his whole house, refrigerator lights whole 9 yards. But he had to put in a propane cooking stove.

So saving of 100.00 a month would be $1200.00 x 6 years would be $7200.00. It’ll take 6 years to pay for itself. But after 6/8 years he’ll be replacing batteries.
After 3 days of no sun, he has to revert back to the grid.

He didn’t use lithium batteries because their $1000.00 each, so what’s it going to cost to replace those 8 battery’s at end of 6/8 years. If you count cost of stove and propane he has well over $8000.00 grand.

He tired induction cooktop but no oven. It does power his Mini split, but that’s only good to 55 degrees. So he put in a wood stove. A cord of wood around here $245.00 a cord. He went through 5 cords. $1200.00 for Wood stove and all pipe and installation. It’s just not practicable for New England’ area

If you add it up over $9200.00 investment, and it’s a Constant monitoring of the system. The wife is pissed because see miss’s the Hot Tube.
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Old 11-18-19, 03:21AM   #54
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She misses the "hot tube" eh? LOL

All the hidden costs he incurred.
If he wants to stay off the grid longer he would have to invest in a wind generator to keep the batteries charged up when there is no sunshine to do the work.
There was a guy named Marcellus Jacobs that perfected the wind generator in the 1930's and was selling them up until the mid 1950's.During that time he manufactured and marketed worldwide approximately $50million dollars worth of wind generator plants.
The reason he got out of the business was sales dropped off as rural and remote areas got electrified by the big power companies that were enabled by the government REA act. many of his units were still in use into the 1980's and are still highly sought after.
They were built to last.
https://www.motherearthnews.com/rene...y-zmaz73ndzraw

http://www.jacobswind.net/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobs_Wind

They had it figured out over 80 years ago!

If you want to save money on fire wood you need a good buddy hookup with a tree trimming company. Most of the time they just grind the trees up into sawdust.
If you are willing to put the labor into it you can get a lot of fire wood just for the cost of hauling it away.
Of course you to have to cut it up and split it. That's hard work that a lot of people are not willing to or physically cannot do. Quit the gym and split fire wood. That'll keep ya in shape.
Just hauled 5 truck loads of fire wood cut to split-able size up to my dad's . He's 95 and it gives him something to do.LOL

You used to be able to by oil burning heaters that would use drain oil.
Homes out in the farming areas used to use those because they had a good supply of used oil from their farm machinery. Lots of areas now where you probably can't use those any longer.
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Old 11-18-19, 07:37PM   #55
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Had wood stove for garage. Cost me 245.00 for a cord, but what a plain. Went to a Kerosene heater, love it, fill it burns for 12 hours. About 120.00 for a month. I had a Mini split, but just wouldn’t do job. Once it dropped blow 55 degrees. Only have 110 going to garage. If I had 220 those units are good to zero.

Get this he was heating with wood, took 9 cords, then free wood dry up.
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Old 11-18-19, 10:40PM   #56
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Alternative to wood burning stove is to use the ones that burn the "wood pellets.
They are way more efficient that just burning plain wood.
The pellets can be a combination of sawdust and other organic materials like nut shells, corn husks,cardboard,paper etc. .
There is an endless supply of that kind of stuff that just gets buried in landfills every year.
And it can be made to burn semi-clean depending on the firing controls for the furnace.
Just a different way of doing things.
People are so locked into subscribing to the major utility companies it isn't funny.
In large urban areas the centralized utility systems are efficient and a huge money maker.
In outlying rural areas and extreme remote areas not so much.
Where I am at in southern California I can heat the house with about a cord and a half.
If it gets any colder I have thermostatically controlled gas fired wall heater that does just fine.
House is well Insulated and I refitted the place my self with energy efficient windows.
Coldest it may get here is in the high 20's low 30's and usually only for a few nights out of the year.
30 miles east of here the winters are much colder and they occasionally will get snow between November and March. They are at a higher elevation.
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Old 11-18-19, 10:58PM   #57
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Yeah I looked into the pellet stoves, friend has one, but he had trouble with grade of pellets he was using, finally got a good grade. He loves his. The garage is my man cave to get away from the boss. I finally cut it in haft insulated it, so I’m only heating a 12x24’
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Old Yesterday, 06:15PM   #58
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I can understand the pellet wood thing, convenient. I don't trust the self feeders though. Have caused fires. Myself, I get all the free wood I want from my work. They cut 23" off of units if they have a order and not the length the customer wants. They are graded lumber.
They used to be kiln dried but enviros made running the kilns a pain. Now sell it green but Doug Fir dries pretty fast when cut to lumber. They are 23" mill ends banded little units and they can be 2x3,2x6 ext all the way to 2x12. And 6x6 up to 6x12. I had a shot at 3 units of 6x12s last night. I use them instead of jack stands for working on my cars, much safer. I would give you guys all you want for doing the same but too far away. I like 2x8s ans 10s the best for the stove. Just have to cut once with chain saw and throw it in. The big stuff you have to split.
Just found out my mom was now paying for firewood as they are too old to cut their own on their 80 acres. Not any more, I will take care of that.
There have been 2 attempts to build pellet fuel plants around here. But enviros do their thing. There is so much slash, hog fuel that they have to give it away to bio electricity plants. Perfect for making high grade pellets.
If I was paying I might do the pellet thing, but free is FREE.
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Old Yesterday, 08:27PM   #59
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California’s still working on destroying the gig economy in the name of guaranteeing the workers’ rights.

A California law scheduled to take effect in January will reclassify many independent contractors as employees, and that could strip truck drivers in the state of some of their best-paying opportunities, experts warn.

“The sweeping law is intended to prevent workers from being wrongly classified as independent contractors, and deprived of basic labor protections as a result. It has, however, led to disastrous consequences in some cases.

“The California Trucking Association filed a lawsuit to prevent the measure from being implemented earlier this month because the law would seriously restrict the activities of independent owner-operators.

“An owner-operator is someone who essentially runs a trucking business. They provide and maintain their own trucks, pay for their own fuel and often have their own drivers. Those features allow them to take home a larger chunk of pay, by a percentage of the haul. They often also make their own schedules, enjoying more freedom and flexibility.”

The industry relies on these independent contractors. About 30% of the drivers are independent. It enables them to make a better living.

According to the job search website Indeed, the average annual salary for an owner-operator driver is $222,608. The median salary for a truck driver is $43,680 per year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

They are essentially left with three options, either leave California to drive elsewhere, become employee drivers or abandon the industry altogether.

The other option would be to get insurance and operating authority, which can be very difficult, especially for small businesses.

California — destroying success and controlling things that don’t need controlling because they don’t like freedom. Success and freedom are not on the agenda.
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Old Yesterday, 08:30PM   #60
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GEORGETOWN, TEXAS — A few years ago, this Central Texas city was basking in the media spotlight after announcing it was one of just a handful of U.S. cities and the only one in the Lone Star State powered 100 percent by renewable energy.

But now, Georgetown's leaders are being criticized for promising that going green was a smart business move for the city.

The city had pinned its hopes on wind and solar when it started negotiating 20-year and 25-year contracts with two wind farms and a solar facility that required the city to purchase far more energy than it could immediately use. The original idea in 2012 was to sell that surplus and recoup the costs while maintaining stability for the city's power needs. But market volatility and decreased demand for electricity meant that losses piled up, leaving the municipally owned electric utility facing a shortfall of almost $7 million by the end of 2018 – and now residents are left paying more per month to make up for it.

"We're selling (the surplus electricity) at a loss. That's why rates have to be raised to pay for this indiscretion," says Joe Plunkett, a retired electrical engineer who moved to Georgetown almost seven years ago from the Boston area. While he can afford the higher bill – an average of $12.82 more per month as of Feb. 1 – Plunkett says many cannot.
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