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Old 01-17-14, 09:53AM   #1
Zedo
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Default in defense of CV-1 head

one of the complaints about the original CV-1 head was, the end ports were turned towards the middle of the engine, creating a bent port.

my response back then was, this is not an issue when using a tunnel ram and 2-4bbl carbs- it is only a slight issue when having to feed from one centrally located 4 bbl carb.

here are pics of the original 1965-66 Chevrolet hi-perf BBC head Z16, big rectangular port, closed chamber head, for 395-427, it also has a bent port, the red arrow in the pictures- and likewise, when using a ram intake with 2-4's it would feed more directly and not be an issue

just some food for thought. this type of head would only be a slight flow impediment on these turned ports when using a single 4 intake. these types of heads were designed to use a 2-4 intake primarily. they are all out racing heads

this BBC head also has dramatically wider ports on 2 ports, than the other 2 ports, and shorter runners on 2 ports, than the other 2 ports.



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Old 01-17-14, 10:01AM   #2
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and here's how a canted valve head like this, would flow with 2-4's on it

this is why you have to read between the lines when so-called big name engine builders bash a head like this, and then say they can "fix it" for some astromical amount. bullschitt. I don't care how fast their cars or timeslips are, or how much HP their dyno sheets say. when statements lack common sense, I'll believe what my inuition and eyes show me first. as if they know more than Chevrolet GM engineers knew, when they casted the head from scratch. a head like this was obviously made primarily for an all-out racing application, which is why the BBC dominated pro stock NHRA racings for such a long time. it was designed from the get go, as a dual carb cylinder head and maximum flow and HP.

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Old 01-17-14, 10:04AM   #3
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Default hi perf

that's why they casted this right into the head. and that's all I have to say about that....

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Old 01-17-14, 01:15PM   #4
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I'm not claiming I know anything about this head. But when I look at it close, the one thing that stands out to me as seeming wrong, is the curve of the runner, it curves away from the exhaust valve instead of towards it .So to me the air is swirling away from the exhaust in stead of into it. I think if that part of it were to be changed it would fix a lot of the problems it has. Could the int and ex valve locations be flip flopped? You know, put the exh where the int is.

I found a picture of one to show you what I mean.. I'm not bashing this head. Just stating my observation of it..
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Old 01-17-14, 03:39PM   #5
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Exhaust is way over rated!JMO,Tom
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Old 01-17-14, 08:30PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo louie View Post
I'm not claiming I know anything about this head. But when I look at it close, the one thing that stands out to me as seeming wrong, is the curve of the runner, it curves away from the exhaust valve instead of towards it .So to me the air is swirling away from the exhaust in stead of into it. I think if that part of it were to be changed it would fix a lot of the problems it has. Could the int and ex valve locations be flip flopped? You know, put the exh where the int is.

I found a picture of one to show you what I mean.. I'm not bashing this head. Just stating my observation of it..
It's commonsense

Zedo…Personally I think your wasting everyone's time, with this discussion the CV-1 heads are no longer in production. Jim made that announcement months ago, on PY So why talk about a head that's no longer in production.
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Old 01-17-14, 09:36PM   #7
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X2, moot point now.
X3
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Old 01-18-14, 04:12PM   #8
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If you hurry Zedo there might be some leftover inventory.
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Old 01-19-14, 01:28AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedo
which is why the BBC dominated pro stock NHRA racings for such a long time.
Apparently you dont know much about the actual history of this class...

That or you just refuse to acknowledge the truth???

There was no NHRA "pro-stock" class till 1970.

First two titles were won by Hemi cars (Sox & Martin cars to be precise).

After the Hemis showed their dominance,rules were changed to favor small block combos as SOP.

It is during this era that Bob Glidden's SBF was so dominant,winning championship titles in '74 & '75 and then wining chapionships again in '78 '79 & '80,the only other racers to win championship titles during this era were "Dyno" Don Nicholson ('77) and Larry Lombardo ('76).

So clearly the BBC was'nt dominating "for years" during this era.

Was'nt till the 80's that NHRA loosened up the rules and the big blocks re-emerged,and even then the BBC did'nt "rule" the class till the RMS car won it for three consecutive years in a row ('82 '83 & '84),but then Bob Glidden again re-emerged as the dominating force winning it from '85 thru '89 (4 years in a row mind you),then came the "Wayne co. Dodge cars" winning* it all for the next two consecutive years.

By '92 when Warren Johnson took the title back for GM,the BBC was nothing like the old BBC you're talking about here,as this is the begining of the DRCE era.

Sooo yeah,@ no point in NHRA pro-stock history did the BBC "rule for years".

And one always needs to remember that any combo that tends to "rule" any given class for any length of time likely only does so due to the rules of that class,and not the actual cars (engines) competing in said class,as all it takes to change parity in any class is a simple rules change,and the playing field often tilts the complete opposite direction.

BTW,the OEM's cared far less about drag racing back then,this was especially true for GM,they all were faaarrr more interested in showing their "best" on the NASCAR tracks (win on Sunday=sell on Monday),mostly the OEM's looked @ drag racing as the bastion of a bunch of poor/greasy ne're-do-wells back then,and the general impression was drag racers gave auto racing a bad image as the insurance industry felt drag racing helped promote/encourage street racing.

That's partly why GM got outta racing entirely in the mid 60's.

History is'nt something we get to re-arrange to suit our personal POV,it is what it is.

FWIW

Bret P.
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Old 01-19-14, 10:58AM   #10
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Spot on Bert, god that brings back Memories of those years. That was a nice read.
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Old 01-19-14, 11:04AM   #11
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Point, I think everyone was concern with, a new head design ( specialy for us Pontiac guys ) needs to move the Pontiac guys forward, and not be controversial where it divides the hobby. Think we have enough of that already. This quote was spot on

Quote:
To me

The cutting edge racer will base their buy on potential and proven results and the opinions of their engine builder/porter and any potential class restrictions/requirements. These are the Warp 6, Visner, Pro Port E Head, custom ported Tiger heads people. They will flat out buy what works.

The next level racers and street strip folks are more budget conscious but will make an informed decision. I don't see them getting caught in the hype of any camp, they will be driven by the results and success of others.

If the positive and negative hype really was a driving factor for success then i don't think the KRE D Ports and High Ports would be the great success they are and the Edelbrock ProPorts and D ports would be doing much better .

It is amazing that when you post very positive results, people start buying regardless of the jawing.
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Old 01-19-14, 12:16PM   #12
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The pro stock wars between small blocks were lots of fun in the '70s. Grumpy vs. Roush as the two "main" builders. Pintos and Vegas... Then the shoeboxes...

The DRCE was a good evolution, getting away from the old porqupine head. But it took Big Chief (what the modern "spread port" heads are based on) to finally make BBC a true Hemi-killer. '94, I think, the first itteration appeared.

GM said publicly, the reason they pulled out of racing in '63 was the danger was too high, after Joe Weatherly and Fireball Roberts were killed in crashes on NASCAR tracks. Their NHRA program was a victim of that, not the cause. Too bad, too.

Jim
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Old 01-19-14, 10:21PM   #13
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Well,I was in a hurry last night,,,so I made a mistake or two...

Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingchief
and even then the BBC did'nt "rule" the class till the RMS car won it for three consecutive years in a row ('82 '83 & '84)
I gotta correct this,I goofed,the RMS car won four consecutive years.

So yeah,add '81 to their win list as well.

I just flat out lost track of that year while looking at the list of champs from '74 up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingchief
but then Bob Glidden again re-emerged as the dominating force winning it from '85 thru '89 (4 years in a row mind you),
Same deal here,I goofed.

This was when BG won five consecutive years in a row.

I think what happened both times is when I was looking @ the years from the chart,my mind forgot to count the year I was starting with,so winning from '85 to '89 adds up to five years ('85 '86 '87 '88 '89),but if you look at the dates as numbers instead ('85 to '89) one's mind wants to see 4 years instead.

And FYI: Year/Driver = Name

1970 champ = Ronnie Sox (Sox & Martin)
1971 champ = Mike Fons (Rod Shop Mopar)
1972 champ = Bill Jenkins (Grumpy's toy tube chassis ~ SBC vega)
1973 champ = Wayne Gapp (Gapp & Roush "taxi" 4dr. Maverick SBF)

I also kinda goofed when I said S&M won both '70 & '71,though Hemi equipped cars did win both years,just not bot S&M cars.

I knew '70 & '71 were both won by Hemi cars,so I guess I went with the name that was easiest to remember off the top of my head,my bad.

And the Larry Lombardo championship ('76) that was in a Bill Jenkins car as well.

They list championships by Driver,not by the team or make of the vehicle.

So there,I think that fixes all my goofs...

But the point remains the same.

At no point in history did the production Mark IV BBC ever "rule" the NHRA Pro-Stock class "for years".

Sigh.

Bret P.
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Old 01-19-14, 10:46PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. PBody
The pro stock wars between small blocks were lots of fun in the '70s. Grumpy vs. Roush as the two "main" builders. Pintos and Vegas... Then the shoeboxes...
Yep,you gotta love all the history involved in that era.

IIRC I remember hearing/reading that Bob Glidden's first Pro-Stock pinto was infact a car that he had bought from the Gapp & Roush team (sometime in/around '72 I believe),and the sale of that pinto directly lead to them building the "taxi" 4dr. Maverick instead,as the quote goes,they later regretted that deal and he wound up coming back to beat up on them,,,ALOT,,,LOL...

And yeah,what can one say about Da'Grump that has'nt already been said.

I started out with chevy's,my first car ('70 Nova) eventually got itself a built 396/TH400 in it,even went as far to clone it into an SS396 Nova,and that was back before anyone even called it "cloning",LOL.

So yeah,I know plenty about the history of the BBC.

But I've always respected & been interested with what guys were doing with smaller engines too.

Bret P.
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Old 01-20-14, 09:18PM   #15
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I fixed it.....How others really see it.


Quote:
7T2

I am a guy from the midwest with no ties to the ECM or the folks in Michigan. These people did not turn me off to your product, rather, TTBill, Bruce Wilkie, Dino, and GreatGTO did.

TTBill was like a little kid who was just potty trained, and had to yell for mom everytime he made a new Port. With Wilkie, Dino, GreatGTO and Get It On....constantly hyping up the next new port, it was like watching an end zone dance a touchdown was scored.

In my opinion, it was these folks who did a dis-service to your product.

I wish you all of the best in the future, and I admire you for your courage to bring a new product to market. Vally Pan:
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