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Old 01-13-18, 07:26PM   #16
Steve C
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With the 972 spring at 1.795" note your distance from coil bind with the Crower 60211 in conjunction with a true 1.65 ratio !

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Old 01-14-18, 02:25AM   #17
thomas flaherty
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Ok Rich is PMing me and I can’t PM back so I have to post here to help But something bother me he pm his retainers are engine pro 03-1006 10deg so again looked them up a found the on ebay and the OD of it is 1.400 so I’m thinking he going to find it hard to find a spring with a 1.400 OD spring. So i went back to a post Rich made 12-25-17 about edelbrock 5825 springs in that post rich said his current spring OD is 1.476. Will a 1.400 retainer hold a 1.476 spring or is Rich playing with Fire? Rich can you post a photo of your retainer on your springs

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Old 01-14-18, 02:53AM   #18
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I have a question for Steve about the 972 springs. you think it ok for rich to run a single spring ( it does have a damper ) but I remember so thing that Paul Spott said many years ago at no time should anybody ever run a single spring on a Pontiac
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Old 01-14-18, 05:44AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas flaherty View Post
Will a 1.400 retainer hold a 1.476 spring
Yes, it'll be fine.

I put ISKY 9265 springs in my heads which are 1.540" OD and ISKY 507-STA retainers (that's what ISKY said to use) and they are 1.370"

I'd be more worried if the retainers aren't a nice snug fit in the spring otherwise they'll dance around and cause other issues.
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Old 01-14-18, 11:35AM   #20
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My personal view, I would not run a single coil spring. I know we hear many have with no issue and then we hear of issues when one breaks. The only exception MIGHT be a Beehive type spring under the right circumstances. This said I also do not run a hydraulic flat tappet cam, for the last 20 or so years they have all been solid roller cams in combinations that require a lot more spring pressure and at higher RPM involved.

Years ago I lost one coil on my dual springs, I could hear it happen and knew something was wrong. I limped the car to the shop and was glad it was not a single coil spring.

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Old 01-14-18, 12:32PM   #21
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"Way more spring pressure than required not only eats up power it also puts more strain on valve train parts and cam bearings so while I always prefer to have a little extra, having way too much isn't the way to go either."

"We use beehive springs on occasion and P-dude has a great set-up that he's proven to work very well, but at the end of the day I'm always looking at the most cost effective way to do things while maintaining long term reliability. For most of the hyd. roller combo's we do we've had nothing but success with using the 99893 springs and chrome moly retainers, we can certainly set-up customers heads using the same springs and retainers P-dude uses but there's a $400.00+ extra cost involved. There are some cheaper beehive springs available as well but we've seen some reliability issues with some of them so I just prefer a dual spring personally. Quoting Steve C. this is a very good reason why...."I've been fortunate over the last 20 years or so. I've only had one instance with a solid roller application that almost led to issues... I broke the inner coil on a dual valve spring and limped home." If he would have had a beehive or single spring fail it would have led to catastrophic engine failure"

Dave Bisschop


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Old 01-14-18, 12:49PM   #22
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I see disaster for Rich unless he gets someone that knows what they are doing. Between coil bind and not enough spring pressure and him figuring the correct retainers.... Rich be careful a mistake on this could cost you a motor and head repairs.
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Old 01-14-18, 06:41PM   #23
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Steve,Kris thank you. Kris that crazy can you post a photo of the retainer on the spring. Thx for the pictures
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Old 01-14-18, 06:52PM   #24
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Sure.

They're 180 on the seat and 500 open. Might not be enough on the seat for the new solid roller i'm putting in, but my old hybrid setup they were fine.
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Old 01-14-18, 07:03PM   #25
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That don't look bad. Smaller retainer = lighter retainer weight. Big thx
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Old 01-14-18, 07:26PM   #26
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Yeah whilst they're not the most magical retainer in terms of weight when comparing against titaniums, they come in at 35g. Which isn't tooooooo bad for a moly retainer.
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Old 01-14-18, 09:05PM   #27
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You got me thinking I have titaniums retainer both of the heads I have e head round ports and kre D ports (yes 2 sets but no car at this time) haha. But I never checked the OD size till now 1.376 and on test fitting they fit the 1.460 springs perfect But light and nice 16grams
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Old 01-14-18, 09:05PM   #28
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Photo. Sorry I can't resize the photo
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Old 01-15-18, 10:03AM   #29
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Rich stated- "...probably will use the Comp Cams 972 springs with a 60211 Crower cam."

Still unconfirmed and a secret. But consider this, on the exhaust lobe at 1.795" installed height in theory it will be .033" away from coil bind with the 972 single coil spring with a true 1.65 rocker ratio using that cam. But again he is using Harland Sharp rocker arms, and assuming an unknown higher ratio.

Not suggesting he is going to do so.... But if he removes his current .050" shim and replaces it with a .030" shim his installed height will now be about 1.825" and thus it will be just a tad above the minimum .060" coil bind distance. But he will now be around 117 lbs on the seat, and after run in they will lose some pressure.


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Old 01-15-18, 11:24AM   #30
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Correction.

Sorry for any confusion but with my .030" shim scenario above the math was off some. But I think some understand where I was going with it.


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