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Old 06-26-04, 08:37AM   #1
zedo
 
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Default yo Marty-question- urethane vs. epoxy primer question ?

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Originally Posted by Marty Phipps
Mike
If you've sanded the car down to bare metal.. you don't really need to use metal prep.
It is a good product, but has it's quirks.

for about $15.00 you can buy a can of aeorosol bare metal etching primer.
LIGHTLY apply a "dusting coat" over the bare spots only.
followed up with Epoxy primer, if the car's sitting for a while, or you need a barrier coat.
if it's a straight panel, and only needs prep work for painting.
Then use Urethane primer directly over the etch primer, block, reprime, and you're ready for paint.

Whatever you do though.
try to avoid using either the metal prep, or etch primer around body filler.



yo Marty,

I found this post interesting as you recommended using epoxy primer if the car is sitting or if a barrier coat is needed. I agree- and the post raises a question for me:

Why use Urethane primer on the straight panel instead of epoxy there too ?? Is that cuz the urethane is easier to sand ?? I was under the impression that the epoxy was the most bulletproof rust inhibitor out there- and you put your color right on it after it's block sanded. But I have heard that epoxy can be a b-itch to sand.

Is that the reason ?? Or is it to just keep an all-urethane system from primer to topcoat ?? Or cost ??

I ask cuz when buying primer one day, I had many different people recommendng both urethane and epoxy primers- urethane being a newer product, epoxy being older system but bulletproof and proven. But I like easy sanding at the same time- and was tempted to go with the urethane.

You have me wondering now..
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Old 06-27-04, 01:41AM   #2
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It really boils down to what you want for a final finish Zedo.
On the Camaro.
I laid down a coat of epoxy primer first, immediately followed by Urethane Primer.
I use epoxy's only in a limited capacity.
To be perfectly honest?
With the changes in Urethane primers.. epoxy primer is becoming a dinosaur.
The main reason for epoxy is a barrier, and bare metal adhesion.
On Jerry's high zoot 69 Firebird I'm building.. I also laid down epoxy first.
Will be getting ready for the 3rd time blocking of the Urethane primers(as long as he doesn't decide on more mods.)

With that car..
I'll actually apply 3 heavy coats of sealer, then wet block it one more time before painting it.
On Mikes 67 Chevelle project..
I used only Urethane primer on the firewall I had to section and repair...
Been sitting out in the weather for 7 years now.. waiting for Mike and I to get motivated on it again..
No rust, no chalking of the primer (Spies Hecker)Only reason I've been using epoxy primer for bases lately.. is because of the type of Urethane primer I'm trying out.
Valspar supa fill.
Without a long history of use with this primer..
I'd rather go to the side of caution

Epoxy primer also has zero build characteristics.. and is a royal mother to sand when cured
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Old 06-27-04, 11:23AM   #3
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yes I'm getting the picture from bodymen now, that epoxy is being used more for on frames, suspensions, etc. where is doesn't have to be sanded. For production and ease of use, it seems the 2K is the way to go- it fills sandscratches better and sands easier- and gives the same holdout as epoxy.

Quite a few guys are using both as they hear so much conflicting opinions. A few paint line companies insist on epoxy underneath, while others have abandoned it and went the 2K route.
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Old 06-28-04, 02:33AM   #4
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Surprisingly enough..
The new Urethanes are the first products actually designed for automotive use.
Lacquers, enamels, epoxies, etc.. were all origionally designed for Trucking and air lines.
They ended up migrating to automotive uses.
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Old 06-28-04, 10:49AM   #5
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Have you ever messed with the dreaded IMRON- the polyurethane that has a history of killing people if they breath it ??
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Old 06-28-04, 12:30PM   #6
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Yepper...
Actually had a truck painted with it..
Neat stuff for planes and Trucks.. but not real practical for automotive.
When I had to strip my truck and repaint it a few years later.
All I needed was a razor blade, and air blower.

Apparantly.. No one told Us at the time that lacquer primer was too soft to use with Imron.
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Old 06-28-04, 12:48PM   #7
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What is it that's not practical about it ?? Just wondering...
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Old 06-30-04, 02:50PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zedo
What is it that's not practical about it ?? Just wondering...
Availability of colors, cost, compatibility with other products.

We once tried to apply Imron clear over a custom lacquer base paint..
It never set up..
Stayed gooey for weeks, until we actually washed the whole truck down with lacquer thinner and started over.

Imron was designed to be flexible for temperature extremes.
Unfortunately that flexibility can not be a good thing for automotive.
Imagine getting a dent in your car, and the paint is gouged.
Becaused the Imron is flexible... if you try to pull off the loose paint from the gouge.
You could actually peel off the paint from the whole panel( been there.. done that)

And Imron used to be (don't know any more) the most expensive paint products available
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Old 06-30-04, 08:27PM   #9
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Thanks Marty.

I guess the new BC/CC urethanes are really the only way to fly today.
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Old 08-26-05, 11:51AM   #10
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i have done auto body for 10 years now went to wyoming technical institute for collision refinishing and custom paint courses and have learned to use epoxy sealers like ppg dp under 2k primers and have had no comebacks due to delamination also if you are using new panels with e-coat you dont have to sand panels when dp sealer is mixed with slow hardener
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Old 01-26-06, 02:38AM   #11
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with all the changes with primers can a person just shoot a stripped down to metal body with 2k high build primer, reason I'm asking is that's the advice I received when I went to pick up some omni epoxy primer today at the auto body paint supplier in town. I got the old dinosaur epoxy out of date technology.
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Old 01-26-06, 03:22PM   #12
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Epoxy is a dinosaur product in today's standards, and I guess I would be considered the same. I still use a thin coat for bare metal applications because it is a good barrier product. I will then use a urethane primer for fill/build and additional adhesion for basecoat clearcoat finishes. It is all preference of choice and the way you are use to doing things.
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