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Old 12-03-19, 02:11PM   #1
keith
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Default Engine assy at home - where to draw the line

Finally at the point where my motor will go together. Have much thought and many $ invested. Was trying to learn as much as I can, increase my skill set, add appropriate tools, saving where I can. I have a buddy who builds motors for $, adept at assy who now lives 4 doors down from me who agreed to help me with this one and the next. He runs a green 5.0 (Under Pressure)at NE dragway and is a lifelong mechanic and racer. My rotating assy is being shipped to a machine shop where my done block has been sitting, (inside protected). Roger at Sanel's in Concord NH has agreed to check fit of r/a and possibly let me watch, maybe help while he does so. Block has been done with cryo'd calico'd main bearings torqued into ARP studs for 4 years. Leo at R+L in Dover carefully oiled when it was done 4 years ago as I told him it would be stored waiting for crank. I had no idea it would take this long. However it has and I'm dealing with it.
Wanted to set myself up to be able to do motors at home to the extent of myself and my buddies skill sets without taking chances. Will not attempt to do machine work at home so if a clearance is unacceptable I will take to machine shop to remedy. Have seen done rotating assy's for sale and was thinking this process ... get block done - order r/a - assemble at home ... is done frequently, Paul my buddy here does it. Both block and heads will be studded. Leo installed main studs 4 yrs ago. Any crud or clearance issue with block and it will go back to Leo, I will have him o-ring block and heads possibly at the same time which I didnt do before. If I build a block I want it to be boost-able.

Things I want to accomplish/keep track of in my engine notebook ...

Degree the cam to motor
Log my weights
Log my cryo'd parts to track durability
Center the valve train geometry
Verify my clearance issues by measuring and logging
Understand single plane vs dual plane to make good guess on use
Understand long rod vs short enough to make good guess on use
Understand why studs stronger than bolts and correct assy using them
Understand coatings use and keep track of parts used on
Butterfly diagram every cam I use to understand differences visually
Verify the chambers and ports are identical in capacity and flow test them/log

Thinking the heads are a ways from completion as custom 2.16/1.65 valves will be used that Im still working on. I have to spec them to John at Ferrea and have to know I can properly seat them. Sanel's has a piloted cutter for 7mm as well as 1.66 and 1.77 Sealed Power replacement seats I have researched a bit. Dimensionally it looks as if I can seat a 1.65 valve in a 1.77 replacement seat with a near optimum 1.560 id dimension. The hardened replacement seat looks like it would slow the flow of a 1.77 valve. Was looking to model the exhaust after the Ti full radius 1.65 valves I have and the 2.16 after a modern Hemi valve Paul C has had good success with.

So should I complete the short block now as waiting periods plus done machine work may not go together well, but the r/a is finished now so I guess its get it done and wrap it. What are some good tips for success anyone might offer in this process?
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Old 12-04-19, 12:41AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith View Post

Degree the cam to motor
Log my weights
Log my cryo'd parts to track durability
Center the valve train geometry
Verify my clearance issues by measuring and logging
Understand single plane vs dual plane to make good guess on use
Understand long rod vs short enough to make good guess on use
Understand why studs stronger than bolts and correct assy using them
Understand coatings use and keep track of parts used on
Butterfly diagram every cam I use to understand differences visually
Verify the chambers and ports are identical in capacity and flow test them/log
I been building engine's for 35 years and just degrees cam, check all bearing clearance and gap rings.
The rest is a waste of time.
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Old 12-04-19, 01:11PM   #3
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And in a lot of what Keith does a total waste of money!Tom
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Old 12-04-19, 01:46PM   #4
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http://www.wallaceracing.com/Engine%...0checklist.pdf
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Old 12-05-19, 12:49PM   #5
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Thanks for the checklist Steve. Done r/a is headed my way and am feeling alittle queasy about not boogering it up. My friend helping me assemble is pretty good, part of this whole thing was him teaching me what he knows about putting motors together. Think I have a Butler checklist as well will probably use both. I dont think either mentions mapping the cylinder wall thickness which I bought a tool for .. should've been done before boring anyway but am feeling uneasy about it so will measure and log. I will be doing that once block is home or at least before assy. Did not use block fill and am wondering whether I should at this point. Block is +.060. Also wondering about storage of assembled short block and how I should lubricate everything so it is in good shape to bolt on heads and intake and fire up for next season. Expecting 6 mo or less to get heads completed.

I started my engine dreaming some time ago with 3 on my mind to start and several more in the wings. Wanted to learn enough to build customized engines that please me. This engine features a stroked, chromed forged crank with long rods and short pistons .. fully cryo'd r/a and valve train. The valve train hopefully will feature 7mm SS custom valves in ported factory heads. Will likely be a mule for different induction systems and possibly get boosted down the road apiece.

I hoped to share my experiences as well as get some good tips on the block done-r/a done-assemble at home experience in hopes to be successful doing that this time and how ever many nexts I got in me. My Sportster motor will be done for next year and will feature some of this motor's ideas.
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Old 12-05-19, 01:32PM   #6
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Block filler

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...highlight=1997


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Old 12-05-19, 05:55PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith View Post
Thanks for the checklist Steve. Done r/a is headed my way and am feeling alittle queasy about not boogering it up. My friend helping me assemble is pretty good, part of this whole thing was him teaching me what he knows about putting motors together. Think I have a Butler checklist as well will probably use both. I dont think either mentions mapping the cylinder wall thickness which I bought a tool for .. should've been done before boring anyway but am feeling uneasy about it so will measure and log. I will be doing that once block is home or at least before assy. Did not use block fill and am wondering whether I should at this point. Block is +.060. Also wondering about storage of assembled short block and how I should lubricate everything so it is in good shape to bolt on heads and intake and fire up for next season. Expecting 6 mo or less to get heads completed.

I started my engine dreaming some time ago with 3 on my mind to start and several more in the wings. Wanted to learn enough to build customized engines that please me. This engine features a stroked, chromed forged crank with long rods and short pistons .. fully cryo'd r/a and valve train. The valve train hopefully will feature 7mm SS custom valves in ported factory heads. Will likely be a mule for different induction systems and possibly get boosted down the road apiece.

I hoped to share my experiences as well as get some good tips on the block done-r/a done-assemble at home experience in hopes to be successful doing that this time and how ever many nexts I got in me. My Sportster motor will be done for next year and will feature some of this motor's ideas.
If already bored and honed do not fill it. It changes things. Bores distort different when filled. And you have to add .002 clearance and .002 ring gap.
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Old 12-05-19, 10:26PM   #8
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You can piece together an engine in a wrecking yard and it will run but the working conditions will not give the best results.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Garage reasonably "clean"
Assembly area not being used for grinding or blasting welding or wood working.
Do not have the garage door open when the people next door are doing their yard work with mowers & blowers.
Assembly area should be heated to at least 65 degrees, especially when putting stuff together in winter.

"Ready To Run" mail order balanced rotating assemblies ?
Could be a crap shoot unless the kit's crank main journals are standard size.
This is especially true when original cast cranks are being used for kits.
Even if the crank in the kit is brand new aftermarket material with standard main bearing journal sizes the process below needs to be followed to make sure everything is OK dimensionally.

For engines that have a limited selection of under size main bearing dimensions:
Last thing you do is cut the crank main journals to achieve the required oil clearance after measuring the dimensions of the main bearing housing bores with the bearings to be used installed installed in them on the block that is to be used.
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Last edited by sprint250 : 12-05-19 at 10:46PM.
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Old 12-05-19, 10:28PM   #9
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Do not use "spectrumrope" for checking main bearing clearances.
If the short block was assembled years ago but was stored well, disassemble it and clean all the old assembly lube of of the spinning parts and start with fresh assembly lube. Pay special attention to the cam.
Pre-lube it really well before startup. Nice if you can strap a heating pad to the oil pan before startup especially during the cold months.
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Old 12-07-19, 09:50PM   #10
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Have steel plate bench 36x60, new dehumidifier and was setting up area to have space for tools, bench, stand and a little computer+filing cabinet enclosed in an area I can drop painters plastic from ceiling to create a little "clean room"when working an engine. Have v-blocks and some measuring tools mainly Starrett. Some of my machinist tools have gotten rust on them, time now to setup my electrolysis rig to see if they can be saved to a usable point. Do up my machinist toolbox and coat tools with oil of some kind to keep them rust-free each time I use them.

Hoping for .125 min wall thickness at bottom of cylinders, may fill and rehone if less or close. Will talk over with Leo at R+L but I think he had said block looked good for .060 overbore or I would not have done it. Not sure how accurate my little digital device is. Have a nice r/a so will do what I can to make it a solid boost-able short-block including doing some block work over or additional if I think necessary.

Wanted to measure oil clearance in as many places as I can and log. I had planned for certain clearances per Paul C and would like to verify I got them. What is best way to measure? I have seen my buddy Paul here measure mains using plastigauge at assembly, he is well known to his builder so Im pretty sure the builder is setting up clearances well, he does both block and r/a for Paul (here). Crosby in Portsmouth NH, he has a #1 rep.
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Old 12-08-19, 02:05AM   #11
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GTO Freak wrote a very good article on the best method for accurately measuring the main bearing housing bores posted on this site but I cannot remember where he posted it.
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Old 12-08-19, 02:07PM   #12
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Default Pual Carter's Bearing Measurment Article

Found it.
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Old 12-10-19, 02:03PM   #13
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Thanks Sprint I do have a Fowler cylinder gauge 2"-6". The face has a .0005" and 0-.25" printed on it. Meant to be zero'd I believe and has 25-0-25 travel markings that goes round 6 times. Seemed rinky-dink when I showed it to Leo at R+L. It is a cheaper model obviously made in China. Each click should be .0005 and if so the other gauge designation should be 0-.025 since there is 50 clicks to 180 degrees indicator deflection.The actual measuring tip has only 1 full revolution's worth of movement, it is a rounded point in between 2 wheels. I believe this is 25 thousandths either way from zero or 50 thousands total movement for 360 degrees. If you pull the movement from top of gauge it goes around 6 times ...I guess this is the 0-.25" indicated on gauge face (.025+.025= .050 times 6 = .300 roughly .250 of complete travel). If I understand it correctly it appears I can get a measurement with enough discrimination for me for a double-check if I use the device correctly. So I will try to at machine shop or/and here at home. I may also plastigauge and compare results.

Was worried about the point of the gauge either cracking the calico on the bearings ( both main and rods are calico'd) or not getting an accurate reading (not sure if calico compresses) but this device has rounded points on either side and calico thickness is supposed to be .00025 ... 1/2 of 1 click.

I had paid R+L 3 plus years ago to measure main and rods for oil clearance with torqued cryo'd calico'd bearings at a cost of 250$ and decided to use Paul C's recommendations for clearance to have crank ground to. I would now be just trying to verify those measurements. Paul has said crank is "on size" and has measured the torqued rod bearings. Dont like the feel of this gauge. Not sure it is a true "bore gauge". They look like boo-koo bucks. They do look similar to this one however. I think even Starrett's is made in China. Guess I will do some internet searching to see if I can figure out proper use of this gauge.
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