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Old 01-08-19, 09:17PM   #1
thomas flaherty
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Default New rods for our pontiac

Looks like Butler Performance got EAGLE to make a 5140 factory replacement forged rods ( with arp 7/16 rod bolts ) at 319 dollars. There press pin only. Wish they would offer a bushing type also. sitehttps://butlerperformance.com/i-31643273-eagle-5140-forged-i-beam-rod-6-625-2-250-pontiac-rj.html

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Old 01-09-19, 12:31AM   #2
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Wonder if thatís what Mr Pontiac bought for his new build, Thatís right up his alley
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Old 01-09-19, 01:03AM   #3
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Lou you have any info on his build. He using your crank.
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Old 01-09-19, 12:15PM   #4
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As far as I know he is, but pretty tight lip on rest of the build.
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Old 01-10-19, 01:05AM   #5
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Jealous...Boy your full of yourself...More like curiosity. We want to see how bad your going to F.u.c.k it up.
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Old 01-10-19, 03:06AM   #6
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The forged PVC rods are easier to put back together after they break
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Old 01-10-19, 03:12AM   #7
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The forged PVC rods are easier to put back together after they break
LOL
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Old Yesterday, 08:58AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas flaherty View Post
Looks like Butler Performance got EAGLE to make a 5140 factory replacement forged rods ( with arp 7/16 rod bolts ) at 319 dollars. There press pin only. Wish they would offer a bushing type also. sitehttps://butlerperformance.com/i-31643273-eagle-5140-forged-i-beam-rod-6-625-2-250-pontiac-rj.html
as you know I don't like Chinese made anything. the 2.200/.990 Chinese rods were a PITA. you had to buy the pistons too, so they'd fit and work in a Pontiac engine, and also cut down the crank, and if it's a factory GM crank that will never fit a Pontiac rod again, it's ruined. bastardized. Chinese-Chevy-ized.... or buy the Chinese crank. holy shiit too much work and expense already, then when you're done you can't give that stuff away, cuz it won't fit anything unless you put the entire Chinese rotator in. well maybe you can sell it to new generation X racers who are 20 years old and think a 1981 Trans Am with a 403 was the meanest Pontiac ever made, and had a real Pontiac engine....(one of those kids offered me $4000 for my RA V Firebird, and bragged to me with pics of his late model TA that looked like a Christmas Tree that somebody went nuts on with a credit card buying mags and stuff online) now imagine those Chinese crank, rods, and pistons in a $60,000 1970 restored Trans Am. Suddenly it's worth around $30,000 cuz it all has to come out and get replaced with vintage GM stuff. or it doesn't even get any bids at Barrett Jackson... This Chinese stuff is basically racer-only filler, then throw it away, give it away, or blow it up and get another block, to fill it with new Chinese stuff.

ok maybe the pistons are made here in USA ....but you get my drift

but at least now they make the rods that fit a Pontiac as is. good move. great price. too bad they couldn't make them in USA. then it would be FIVE STARS, WIN-WIN situation.

going with Chinese stuff with Chevy dimensions just so you can run a cheaper Chevy piston and rod bearing and rings, is like going to hell to light a cigarette. I like the Butlers, their cars are fast, but I think long term you can't go wrong marketing the standard dimensioned Pontiac stuff. FORGET about what it can run at the track. RA V heads are worth more than any resale, they don't run the quickest at the track anymore. wanna repop the Pontiac stuff ?? make it EXACTLY like the original stuff, warts and all. it will sell better, believe me....even if it's slower. if you took a RA V head, intake, headers and cast it EXACTLY like stock, in cast iron or aluminum, it would outsell everything. but they just don't get that...yet....

this rod is a step in the right direction. but it needs to be made here in USA, cuz we're now in a trade war with China. it may turn into a hot war. if it does, forgettabout buying Chinese made anything. it's already getting the balls tariffed off it by Trump, which is why the rods started at $319, and now they're $349. they got hit with a 10% tariff no doubt.

only a very small percentage of Pontiac owners are all out diehard fast racers. 99% of the Pontiac market is street cars with stock stuff. yet the Pontiac vendors cater to the 1%.

what made Chevy bigger than all the rest of GM, Chrysler, and Ford put together ?? they catered to the 99%

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Old Yesterday, 12:45PM   #9
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Charlie,the issue these days is getting a affordable forged crank.Virtually all 3in main forged cranks require a BBC rod.Im building another RA V engine and wanted a 4in stroke crank.Im going to use a Scat forged crank and Molnar 6.6350 rods which depending on the deck height of the block I can use a stock 428 piston.IF I was going to build a MAX effort pontiac I would use US made crank and rods but for a hipo street engine it makes no sense IMO.Tom
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Old Yesterday, 01:16PM   #10
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Quote:
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Charlie,the issue these days is getting a affordable forged crank.Virtually all 3in main forged cranks require a BBC rod.Im building another RA V engine and wanted a 4in stroke crank.Im going to use a Scat forged crank and Molnar 6.6350 rods which depending on the deck height of the block I can use a stock 428 piston.IF I was going to build a MAX effort pontiac I would use US made crank and rods but for a hipo street engine it makes no sense IMO.Tom
I've only used one steel 4" Scat crank for the Pontiac, so I don't know off the top of my head, but I would check to make sure the piston pin boss will clear the counterweights with that short of a rod.

If not, you're gonna have to have some lathe work done, which could possibly entail some more heavy metal to balance. All-in-all, it may be cheaper for you to use a longer rod with a custom piston.

I used a 7.100" rod in the last 434 that I did with a 4" Scat crank.
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Old Yesterday, 03:04PM   #11
thomas flaherty
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Zero I’m with you I hope trump using tariffs on steel and alum can bring back all kinds of manufacturing including performance parts. Just a note on the rod this is not a butler only deal, it will be sold threw summit jegs etc etc and yes will find there way onto ebay. Also eagle rates them at 750 hp. I would never run them at that horsepower but 500-600. Last comment price point is important $349 press pin and higher makes you look at the 4340 bushing h beams for a couple dollars more
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Old Yesterday, 03:13PM   #12
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A friend has built a few engines with the Scat 4in with the 6.6350 rod with no issue.I REALLY wanted to run the 6.350 but was told by Scat what you just said.Im not a fan of long rods,just me.One thing that gives me thought is there is NO country of origin on these cranks.I know Scat does custom forged cranks from their offshore forging and also does billet cranks with material from either UK or Canada.Maybe Tom would share with a direct customer IF the entry level forged crank is 100 percent machined in US.Being in SoCal I kind of doubt it.Tom
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Old Yesterday, 05:11PM   #13
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A friend has built a few engines with the Scat 4in with the 6.6350 rod with no issue.I REALLY wanted to run the 6.350 but was told by Scat what you just said.Im not a fan of long rods,just me.One thing that gives me thought is there is NO country of origin on these cranks.I know Scat does custom forged cranks from their offshore forging and also does billet cranks with material from either UK or Canada.Maybe Tom would share with a direct customer IF the entry level forged crank is 100 percent machined in US.Being in SoCal I kind of doubt it.Tom
I'm direct with them, maybe I can find out.

With the sheer amount of items having some kind of offshore "touch" to them, I simply can't be biased that way.

Everyone has their preferences though and I understand that. I personally wouldn't run an Eagle product in my lawnmower and haven't used anything from them in some 16 years. FWIW, I run a ton of Scat stuff though and to my remembrance, I've only had to send one Scat crank to the crank grinder to be "touched up". Most of the time they come in with less than a .0002-.0003" tolerance, pretty similar to what I've seen from Callies.

I have seen a Scat cast crankshaft crack, but it was in a 540 hp bracket engine for 8 years straight, with repeated 5500 rpm clutch drops and 7000 rpm shift points.

I'm not a heavy piston fan, so I use a "moderately" sized connecting rod length. I don't like them so long that the pistons are unstable either. I have used a 1.040" piston and there was lots of rock. Something around the 1.2-1.4" mark is very stable though and takes a lot of weight off of the rod, especially at higher rpms.

Just my two pennies.

BTW, Molnar is also not made in the US, which really surprised me. VERY high quality pieces.....
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Old Yesterday, 06:21PM   #14
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Molnar does not make the 4in stroke so that why I went with the Scat,Scat does not make the 6.6350 so went to Molnar.From the pieces I have actually seen with my own eyes the Molnar seemed better finished.After research,the consensus is Scat and Molnar are said to be finished here in the US but im hard pressed to believe on the entry level stuff.I have never used any Eagle but have used a couple Ohio cranks with no issue.Tom
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Old Today, 07:15AM   #15
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Charlie,the issue these days is getting a affordable forged crank.Virtually all 3in main forged cranks require a BBC rod.Im building another RA V engine and wanted a 4in stroke crank.Im going to use a Scat forged crank and Molnar 6.6350 rods which depending on the deck height of the block I can use a stock 428 piston.IF I was going to build a MAX effort pontiac I would use US made crank and rods but for a hipo street engine it makes no sense IMO.Tom

Tom, you're independently wealthy. WTF are you worried about ante-ing up for a good forged crank from Crower ? if we all had your money, we'd burn ours. why low buck it and buy and recommend Chinese ? with that mentality when I hit the lottery for 100 million, should I buy a Toyota ? no thanks I'd buy a Maserati or Lamborghini or Ferrari, or the fully restored Tempest SD421 for $550,000. Top end, not bottom end. sheet man why low buck it and buy Chinese when you are a millionaire ?

if I was rich and wanted a forged crank, and nobody made them here, I'd start a business and make them myself. and sell them made in USA, for USA.

good forged cranks are not hard to find. I bought an SD421 crank earlier this year for only $250, forged vintage made in USA, from a shop in NJ. it was already cut down to 3" mains.
and I bought a complete DS forged 366 NASCAR Pontiac crank, rods, and pistons for $1500 from a guy in Pittsburgh years ago.

as you know call around pay the price, you'll find one. you just bought a complete 303 RA V block and heads and ram intake setup, for what something like $20 grand ? you certainly are not in the Chinese offshore parts category.

sorry Tom, I don't want Chinese parts in my Pontiac engine. it's about time we put an end to that crap already. I don't want it, the hobby doesn't want it- it was forced down everyone's throat cuz the vendors are either too cheap or stupid or greedy to have the good stuff made here.

it's about time we stood up and protested this already. otherwise eventually the whole damned engine, trans, and car is going to be Chinese made.

for the record China is patently racist and basically hates America. they've been screwing us over economically for decades. they're not our buddies or friends !! if a war broke out with N. Korea, China would back the north, and kills our guys by the 1000's. it would be like buying German Nazi-made parts during World War II. think about what you are recommending here, just to drive a car at the track ?

may as well sell your kids into slavery so you can race and get a cheap forged crank. what these vendors did was a bad decision, unpatriotic, and a mistake. the only guys that thought twice were Nunzi, and HO Racing and Warrior who went out of business rather than sell that Chinese stuff. and that was the honorable thing to do.

did Pontiac Motor Division put Chinese made parts in their cars ? every nut and bolt was made in USA. every Pontiac I ever bought, sold, drove, raced, or owned never had a single part on the car from offshore. that firebird I sold in September, every single part, fender, and nut and bolt was made in USA. where is your national pride ?

that bad thing about money is, it will make you do things, that you don't want to do, or shouldn't really do.

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