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Old 09-18-09, 01:04AM   #1
Johnny406
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Default Belt Driven Turbo Time for my 78 T/A

Here is my at home project. Kinda strange I am working on two cars and haven't found a job since retiring. Good think most of the stuff I'm using I had laying around.

I am installing a Thomas "Geoff" Knight belt driven/converted turbo onto my 78 T/A. I am going conservative as I am using a 557 block with heavy TRW pistons and stock rods w/ARP bolt and 2-bolt main studs. This motor was built in 1999 so many of these new parts were not out yet.

I took off my ported and milled 6X heads for the Pontega Project and installed these 97cc 96 heads I picked up. The cam is a less than ideal Comp XE274 grind. The intake is a old TKII and the carb is a professionally built Holley 600HP blow thru DP.

These are all mock up pics as I was trying to figure out where home would be for the turbo and how long a belt I would need and hood clearance. After I get the belt I will do a final mock up and build the mounting bracket assy.

Included is a pic on how to totally piss off a cheap Harbor Freight drill press (but it worked)...
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78 T/A 463, Ultradyne custom cam, very ported Greg Merrick Heads, TH400, 3.31 12 bolt, 3425lbs


81 T/A 350 sbc vortec heads 4 speed 3.42 posi
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Old 09-18-09, 11:22AM   #2
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Looks good so far. Interesting conversion of the turbo.
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Old 09-18-09, 01:46PM   #3
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I like it great project.
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Old 09-18-09, 02:02PM   #4
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never seen that befor. So how would you determain the the overdrive ratio on the turbo?? Since you are not using exhaust gasses to dive it now?
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Old 09-18-09, 07:19PM   #5
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Looks good!
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Old 09-18-09, 09:16PM   #6
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interesting.....

do the bearings get any type of constant lubrication?
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Old 09-19-09, 12:05AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6D6GOAT View Post
interesting.....

do the bearings get any type of constant lubrication?
That was the big question I had before buying it. Here was his answer. 1000 HRS AT 22K RPM CONTINUOUS (35K PEAK)
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78 T/A 463, Ultradyne custom cam, very ported Greg Merrick Heads, TH400, 3.31 12 bolt, 3425lbs


81 T/A 350 sbc vortec heads 4 speed 3.42 posi
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Old 09-19-09, 11:08AM   #8
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What makes you think your cam is less than ideal? It may be just fine and you might find slightly retarding or advancing the cam from the normal suggested position that it does ok. Supercharged engines tend to follow the character of the cam and extend the rpm range. I would be very concerned with your short block!

Converting a turbine driven centrifigal supercharger to belt driven is an undertaking to be approached with caution. The compressor still needs to match the requirements of the airflow demands of the engine. ??? is there any overrun device to deal with sudden changes in crank speeds(shift points) or just a blow off valve and let the belt just slip? How well balanced is the drive side? Any protection for the drive mechanism to contain pieces should something fail? Turbochargers are not designed for loading the bearings like a specifically designed centrifugal supercharger. Yes it may survive at high rpm at steady state speeds but everytime it gets accelerated or decellerated there will be side loads at magnitudes that a turbo never ever sees. Proceed with caution!
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Old 09-20-09, 02:06AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Wilkie View Post
What makes you think your cam is less than ideal? It may be just fine and you might find slightly retarding or advancing the cam from the normal suggested position that it does ok. Supercharged engines tend to follow the character of the cam and extend the rpm range. I would be very concerned with your short block!

Converting a turbine driven centrifigal supercharger to belt driven is an undertaking to be approached with caution. The compressor still needs to match the requirements of the airflow demands of the engine. ??? is there any overrun device to deal with sudden changes in crank speeds(shift points) or just a blow off valve and let the belt just slip? How well balanced is the drive side? Any protection for the drive mechanism to contain pieces should something fail? Turbochargers are not designed for loading the bearings like a specifically designed centrifugal supercharger. Yes it may survive at high rpm at steady state speeds but everytime it gets accelerated or decellerated there will be side loads at magnitudes that a turbo never ever sees. Proceed with caution!
Thanks for the honest feedback. As for the cam, I understand a longer LSA cam will work better with a forced induction system. I will consider swapping cams down the road but it's not a priority if it works pretty good and I can manage the pressure and temperature/AF ratio.

This turbo system was designed to feed a 380CI engine (if I correctly recall) so it's a bit small but that's okay since my motor isn't a high RPM platofrm anyways. I already have a set of 3.23 gears to install if the 3.73's are too steep.

The guy I bought this from has been building these for quite awhile so I have faith this will work well. Just to be safe, I ordered a Bosch 10PSI blow off valve.

Attached are a few more pics, I'm stuck in the water until the belt arrives so I will start working on the new fuel system and hooking everything else up.
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78 T/A 463, Ultradyne custom cam, very ported Greg Merrick Heads, TH400, 3.31 12 bolt, 3425lbs


81 T/A 350 sbc vortec heads 4 speed 3.42 posi
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Old 09-20-09, 10:52AM   #10
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Interesting,
Looks like there is no step up gearing at the compressor but lots of pulley ratio (maybe 6:1) Belt alignment will be critical. With 5000 engine RPM gives 30K or so RPM at the compressor. A turbocharger type wheel is just getting warmed up at this speed. Do you have a map for this compressor?
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Old 09-20-09, 12:16PM   #11
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As far as the cam goes I have seen street gmc type blower combos do just fine with a cam like yours. However those combos are usually pushing more air at low speed than a centrifugal. That particular cam at low speed may not like the lower compression required of a supercharged motor. I'd be more inclined to use something like a Summit 2801 or RA3 first. Supercharging usually extends the upper rpm power band range. Too big of a cam in a low compression 400 gives up a bunch of low speed tq and driveability.
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Old 09-24-09, 08:18PM   #12
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Default And a little more progress

I was really hoping the UPS man would have brought my belt by today, atleast he waved as he drove by...

I started building my brackets and installing grade 8 bolts and aligning the waterpump & alt pulleys. I still need to "fine align" the turbo and invent/fabricate another mount to support the top of the turbo. I'm also putting a bigger (10 gal) fuel cell and will be installing my big and heavy Optima battery. It will go forward and closer over the slicks. This "extra" weight over the axles should help those 9in slicks hook on a crappy track.

Thank you Bruce and everybody for your input. I'll try it with this cam and see how it does. Not the end of the world changing it...again...

I have to count the drive sprocket again, I think it's 84 teeth and the turbo is 24.
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78 T/A 463, Ultradyne custom cam, very ported Greg Merrick Heads, TH400, 3.31 12 bolt, 3425lbs


81 T/A 350 sbc vortec heads 4 speed 3.42 posi
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Old 09-24-09, 08:21PM   #13
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Oops, forgot the fuel cell pic.
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81 T/A 350 sbc vortec heads 4 speed 3.42 posi
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Old 09-24-09, 08:55PM   #14
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Looking good! I am interested in how this does as I have never seen a belt driven turno before. Are those holes in your tail lights? What were those for? Thanks
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Old 09-25-09, 01:46AM   #15
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You will need to make your support bracket very strong! I included a few pictures of the brackets on my vortech t-trim ford. The main support plate is 1/4 in. If the brackets flex too much you will tear or toss the belt.

I have never seen a blower/turbo like you have, I hope this works out good for you Im watching this thread.
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