PONTIAC ZONE TECH FORUMS
 

Go Back   PONTIAC ZONE TECH FORUMS >
Engine Tech
> Engine Tech Discussion - Street or Strip
User Name
Password

sponser links

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-21-18, 02:14PM   #16
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,508
Default

Are you running a points distributor With a MSD ?
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-18, 01:01AM   #17
Dragncar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mcinleyville CA
Posts: 641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gach View Post
Are you running a points distributor With a MSD ?
Yes I am. Its straight up better than a MSD or any other electronic unit. There is simply nothing to fail. No pickup or modual. All the points do is tell the MSD to do its job.
Toyota used to use capacitor discharge point fired ignition and the points lasted 100,000+ miles.
Neither one makes more HP. I like the simplicity and reliability of the cast iron points distributor.
My brother was having ignition issues with his sbc. Aftermarket HEI. Bought him a cast iron single point sbc distributor for 20$ on E Bay and let him use a Crane ignition CD box I have.
Ended his ignition issues.
Dragncar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-18, 08:37AM   #18
turbo louie
Registered User
 
turbo louie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: mastic ny
Posts: 2,104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
Yes I am. Its straight up better than a MSD or any other electronic unit. There is simply nothing to fail. No pickup or modual. All the points do is tell the MSD to do its job.
Toyota used to use capacitor discharge point fired ignition and the points lasted 100,000+ miles.
Neither one makes more HP. I like the simplicity and reliability of the cast iron points distributor.
My brother was having ignition issues with his sbc. Aftermarket HEI. Bought him a cast iron single point sbc distributor for 20$ on E Bay and let him use a Crane ignition CD box I have.
Ended his ignition issues.
I have never seen a cast iron distributor for Pontiac. Can you post a picture of it ?
__________________
If it's gona be it's up to me!
turbo louie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-18, 02:45PM   #19
Dragncar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mcinleyville CA
Posts: 641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo louie View Post
I have never seen a cast iron distributor for Pontiac. Can you post a picture of it ?
62 and earlier were cast iron. When I take it out I can post a pic. Its in the car right now and any pic won't show you much.
They are FAR superior than the OEM aluminum ones. I mean, I have yet to find one all worn out and sloppy. Seen all kinds of aluminum distributors that need rebuilt. And the iron ones are much older.
I think its in the way the bushings get oiled. Just better and I believe the bushings are larger too.
That Sun Tuned guy over on PY would be the guy who knows the real difference. Maybe I can PM him and ask about it.
I am not worried about the 2 lbs or so weight difference.
Dragncar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-18, 08:37PM   #20
73ta
Registered User
 
73ta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LODI, CA
Posts: 50
Default

So I should be able to take my current distributor that's using mechanical advance 16 degrees initial, 36 total all in at about 2500 rpm and just lock out the mechanical advance and set my initial at 36 degrees? This is in a street driven car that sees track use. It also cruses at about 1800 to 2000 rpm's on the highway in overdrive.
73ta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-18, 09:07PM   #21
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,508
Default

When you say mechanical advance does it still have the springs and weights ?

Just thinking out loud, when they set up a disb for a certain initial timing it’s done by using lighter springs, and some times they have to grind the weights.

That’s on a points disb. Maybe someone can answer your question with a better explanation

The MSD disb are easier you can just lock them out.
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-18, 09:09PM   #22
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooter View Post
Iíve been running timing locked out on my street cars for over 10 years. Cleaned up the idle a lot. No issues. Run a 20 degree start retard also.
Iíve never had to use a start retard.
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-18, 12:43AM   #23
tjs44
Ram Air V Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: long beach,california
Posts: 1,848
Default

Pulled a rebuilt iron dizzy and put in a rebuilt alu by Suntuned,both with Pertronix.No diff at all.I run mech advance in all my dizzy.I have all rebuilt and setup by a professional and have not had a issue in the past 20 plus years.FWIW,Tom
tjs44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-18, 01:41AM   #24
Dragncar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mcinleyville CA
Posts: 641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjs44 View Post
Pulled a rebuilt iron dizzy and put in a rebuilt alu by Suntuned,both with Pertronix.No diff at all.I run mech advance in all my dizzy.I have all rebuilt and setup by a professional and have not had a issue in the past 20 plus years.FWIW,Tom
You are not going to see any difference. What I a saying is the iron units seem to wear better. I have yet to see one all worn out and seen plenty of aluminum ones worn badly.
I have a Petronix too, just don't use it. Run the points instead. They do just as good a job triggering the MSD and nothing to fail.
Dragncar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-18, 11:32AM   #25
scott s
Registered User
 
scott s's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Spring Hill, Florida
Posts: 235
Default

Ive been running a locked distributor for many years on my street strip Firebird. . I use a start regard to aid in starting. I had my mechanical advance set to be all in by 1500-1600 rpm but the idle quality suffered with the timing bouncing around.
scott s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-18, 04:44PM   #26
Dragncar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mcinleyville CA
Posts: 641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott s View Post
Ive been running a locked distributor for many years on my street strip Firebird. . I use a start regard to aid in starting. I had my mechanical advance set to be all in by 1500-1600 rpm but the idle quality suffered with the timing bouncing around.
Thanks, that is one benefit it seems. Back in the day (80s) when building this engine Dan Whittmore set the distributor up. Told him what distributors I had. Accel duel point, Mallory duel point, aluminum PMD and cast iron PMD.
He said the irun unit was the best one so I sent it to him. It was in great shape and did not need rebuilt. Set it up on his Sun distributor machine for 30 $
He brazed up the slot and installed springs much stiffer than originals.
I have no issues at idle at all. I can back it down to 900 PPM or run it at 1500RPM for staging.
Runs perfect.
Dragncar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-18, 07:50PM   #27
73ta
Registered User
 
73ta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LODI, CA
Posts: 50
Default

I'm going to try it with 18 degrees initial, 18 degrees crank for a total of 36 with it all in around 1600 rpm using the lighest springs and the lowest crank degree bushing. Running a msd pro billit. If it likes that I might try and just lock it out at 36.
73ta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-18, 10:19PM   #28
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,508
Default

You’ll like it. The biggest thing about setting up disb, and locking it out, that allot of times gets missed is keeping it from advancing. This was a while ago, the motor in particular by all means had capability of running 10.90’s. It was build by P-Dude. When the guy finally got it to the track the thing would baily crack 11.90’s.

One of the biggest problems was the disb, he would set the timming at 36 degrees at 2500, but as the motor got up to 3500-4000 it kept advancing all the way up to 50 degrees. Once he got it lock out and total timming all in by 1500 and some jetting, he finally ran 10.90. Of cruse there was other factors involved not trying to say correctly the timming was just the issue.

That’s kind of the worse case scenario. But definitely that’s must make sure it’s not advancing past the 1500 rpm mark. The MSD disb puts out the most juice of any disb out there. Definitely a good choice will worth the money.

I forgot what the numbers are, but let’s say ( just as example ) let’s say a plug gap at .45 takes 60,000 volts but a OEM disb is only putting out 35,000. It’s not making the hp it should be making. I did this a long time ago, I use to run a Molley disb, the amount of volts it was putting out wasn’t any better the and OEM disb. The plugs were more like a glow plug.

When your getting the right amount of juice for that plug gap, and timming right ! all of a shouldn’t it wants more jet. The idel Circuit that transitions to high end Circuit is much better. That’s why they make 2 and 3 Circuit carburetors.

I just learned so much from Pro Systems and Dale Cubic. I have a vedio that Pro Systems sent to Scott Rex in which he sent me a copy of. Patrick is a Pontiac guy, One of the traits of a Pontiac is it goes lean in the mid range, the vedio was unbelievably educateding. When your making that transition it wants more fuel.
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-18, 11:27PM   #29
Dragncar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mcinleyville CA
Posts: 641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gach View Post
Youíll like it. The biggest thing about setting up disb, and locking it out, that allot of times gets missed is keeping it from advancing. This was a while ago, the motor in particular by all means had capability of running 10.90ís. It was build by P-Dude. When the guy finally got it to the track the thing would baily crack 11.90ís.

One of the biggest problems was the disb, he would set the timming at 36 degrees at 2500, but as the motor got up to 3500-4000 it kept advancing all the way up to 50 degrees. Once he got it lock out and total timming all in by 1500 and some jetting, he finally ran 10.90. Of cruse there was other factors involved not trying to say correctly the timming was just the issue.

Thatís kind of the worse case scenario. But definitely thatís must make sure itís not advancing past the 1500 rpm mark. The MSD disb puts out the most juice of any disb out there. Definitely a good choice will worth the money.

I forgot what the numbers are, but letís say ( just as example ) letís say a plug gap at .45 takes 60,000 volts but a OEM disb is only putting out 35,000. Itís not making the hp it should be making. I did this a long time ago, I use to run a Molley disb, the amount of volts it was putting out wasnít any better the and OEM disb. The plugs were more like a glow plug.

When your getting the right amount of juice for that plug gap, and timming right ! all of a shouldnít it wants more jet. The idel Circuit that transitions to high end Circuit is much better. Thatís why they make 2 and 3 Circuit carburetors.

I just learned so much from Pro Systems and Dale Cubic. I have a vedio that Pro Systems sent to Scott Rex in which he sent me a copy of. Patrick is a Pontiac guy, One of the traits of a Pontiac is it goes lean in the mid range, the vedio was unbelievably educateding. When your making that transition it wants more fuel.

Nice post. But the thing about distributors and "juice', once you hook them up to a CD ignition box, they don't put out any juice really. They just tell the CD box to do its job. Single point, electronic, its all the same.
Dragncar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-18, 12:45AM   #30
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,508
Default

Correct, itís just becomes a switch. The MSD box and coil is what makes the juice. My mind was on stock coil with no box. I shouldíve emphasize that. The OEM cap and rotor is the restriction compare to MSD Ford style cap and rotor, just a better conductor 10 Seer vs 22.
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NEED HELP! Timing retards 2-3 degrees above idle Robsinno1 Engine Tech Discussion - Street or Strip 9 11-07-15 09:07AM
455 running on retarded Timing and Detonation thetastelingers Engine Tech Discussion - Street or Strip 35 10-01-14 10:12PM
Degreeing the cam "yes or no" and why Bad67Bird Engine Tech Discussion - Street or Strip 28 02-27-14 11:37PM
timing problems continued jeffb Engine Tech Discussion - Street or Strip 15 08-22-11 07:03AM
Timing chain causing tranny problems? gtofreek Engine Tech Discussion - Street or Strip 7 07-07-07 01:51PM


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 04:56PM.

Featured Ads
Ken's Speed & Machine
Mayhem Turbocharging

Carter Cryogenics.  What can we freeze for you?

Pacific Performance Racing

Central Virginia Machine Service.  Home of the Injun Engine!

All Pontiac Engine Kits

Larry's Auto Machine.  Full serivce auto, marine machine shop, domestic and foreign.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2007 PontiacZone.com
Page generated in 0.11289 seconds with 45 queries