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Old 07-05-05, 10:52AM   #16
Marty Phipps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. X.
Do these flaws you're talking about show up in specific colors or what. More so in darker or lighter? Maybe I'm just not as experienced, but I'm still lost as to what you are saying.
Specific flaws will show up in any color, i/e substrate scratches, poorly feathered paint, pinholes in filler, etc. etc.
Some things will actually look worse in light colors, like excessive body filler hardener..( the dye will leach itself and look like a stain)

Only thing a darker color does, is magnify the problems by reflecting less light back.

Then proper application of metallics is a whole different game.
Streaks, flop,too wet, too dry,too light, too dark, reflective coverage.
All of these are very possible when applying a metallic color, and very hard to correct, short of sanding down and starting over

The general thought process from body shops has always been...

"A good painter, can make a bad bodyman look good, / and a bad painter can make a good bodyman look bad"

All of these factors and more, will dictate whether you have a 20' car, a 10' car, or a 1" car
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Old 07-05-05, 02:13PM   #17
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Looks to me like you're talking body work, not paint. That's not what we were talking about. great body work goes without saying... or at least it should.
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Old 07-05-05, 06:56PM   #18
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marty so when u see filler darker in some spots it will show? thats good to know. I always mix mine right, but i never knew of that.
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Old 07-05-05, 07:34PM   #19
Marty Phipps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. X.
Looks to me like you're talking body work, not paint. That's not what we were talking about. great body work goes without saying... or at least it should.
NO.
They are separate.
I am talking about proper paint work procedures.
I did make a note about the filler stain which would be a body work concern.

But is part of the paint problem.
A body man does not sand/ feather/ fill/ prep a car for paint.
A painter does.
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Old 07-11-05, 02:20PM   #20
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Thank you for providing your expertise here, Marty. We here at Pontiac Zone truly appreciate it when a professional offers advice and help to those who need it. Your input here is truly appreciated. Once again, Thank You sir.

With Much Respect,
PZS
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Old 07-11-05, 11:37PM   #21
Goat72
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Thumbs up

You paint guys may take what you do for granted, but for the rest of us "wannabes" we're in awe of your discussion.
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Old 07-14-05, 03:10PM   #22
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But, to go back to the title of the thread, for the beginner looking to paint a car (like my beater 86 GP), what is there to someone painting?
The one (and only one) time I tried this, the paint came off by the time I drove from North Carolina to New Jersey (like the Maxima commercial).
As far as I knew , before reading this thread, was that the steps went like this

1: Fix body (sand, replace panels. bondo, whatever)
2: Rinse
3: Prime
4: Sand
5: Rinse
6: Paint
7: Sand with 800+ grit
8: rinse
9: Wax

What else is missing? There are many of us that are comfortable under the hood, but ooh and aah at the body shop.
Thanks from the newbie here.
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Old 07-15-05, 11:22AM   #23
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What do you mean by the words rinse?
Are you actually washing the car with soap and water?.
Here's a basic procedure. to follow.
1
wash car with non scented dishwashing soap
2
prep wash car with solvent
3
perform body repairs
4
prep for paint. (sand,prime,block,feather,etc
5
paint car
6
cut/rub if you desire the look and finish
7
wash/wax car (usually 4 weeks after painted) if needed

There's a few variables that will cause paint to literally fall off.
Most of them involve using the wrong products together, or in the wrong ratios.

A prime example.. was back in the old day's of acrylic lacquer..
When Nissan and Toyota first came into the scene.. They used "Amino Alkyd Enamel"
Painting acrylic lacquer over the enamel was disasterous..
The lacquer flat would not adhere, unless the enamel was sanded with 320 grit paper.
blending was just about impossible
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Old 07-18-05, 06:44PM   #24
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Default beginner paint

Looks like Kicker is Arcrylic Urethane.
Fine for any beginner or experienced painter!
Ease of application, good flow, strong durability.
Other economically priced arcrylic urethanes also available.
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Old 07-20-05, 11:37PM   #25
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OK...stupid question...What exactly is "color sanding"? Is that where you put on multiple coats, then take a few off to smooth it out?
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Old 07-21-05, 07:28AM   #26
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Cool

When i painted my '72 GTO with base/clear (Cardinal red), I "wet sanded" with a #1000 grit, then resanded with a #1600, then a #2000.

After I washed it it was all scratched up (which I expected) but then I tried to hand-rub with a light compound. No good.

Then I used a low-speed wheel with a wool pad and a heavier compound and it took out the scratch. But the problem is, how do I get the areas around the door handles, side mirrors and inside the scoops?

I ended-up burning the paint/clear around the hood vents (at the base of the windshield).

So I wiped-out a ton of hard work through inexperience/stupidity...

Should I have used one of those foam rubber wheels?

Mac
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Old 07-21-05, 10:48AM   #27
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Rub through or "burning" the paint is a pretty common "beginner" mistake.
It usually occurs at edges and curves.
I don't start re-assembling a car until after it's been completely polished.

Surprisingly.. the type of pad, and compound used will also dictate what type of finish you end up with.
This is an area that I've learned to not "skimp" on.

Over the years I've tried various compounds and such.
And alway's end up using the Schlegal pads, and 3M compounds.
Norton, Meguires, and others will more or less work.
But they all seem to require more friction to acheive the type of gloss and depth I want.

I have my own way of polishing a car, that seems to blow most peoples minds..
No big secret really...
I don't care about the instant shine, but actually look at the surface while polishing.
To make sure the sand scratches are fully gone.
Once you learn to stop looking at the shine, and pay attention to "depth"
Polished paint will hold a shine that doesn't ever go away
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Old 07-21-05, 11:51AM   #28
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Using the proper polisher/buffer is important too. Orbital buffers are not for rubbing out a paint job. In fact, I have yet to figure out what those are for. lol! The cheapo pads you get at Wal-Mart and Autozone aren't either. A good quality varitible speed polisher and top quality pads ( I like 3M pads) are key to doing a good job. This is not as complicated as people like to make it. The right tools and supplies makes this job a lot easier though, and a lot better in the end. Like Marty said. Don't skimp!
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Old 07-21-05, 12:30PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Phipps
Rub through or "burning" the paint is a pretty common "beginner" mistake.
It usually occurs at edges and curves.
I don't start re-assembling a car until after it's been completely polished.

Surprisingly.. the type of pad, and compound used will also dictate what type of finish you end up with.
This is an area that I've learned to not "skimp" on.

Over the years I've tried various compounds and such.
And alway's end up using the Schlegal pads, and 3M compounds.
Norton, Meguires, and others will more or less work.
But they all seem to require more friction to acheive the type of gloss and depth I want.

I have my own way of polishing a car, that seems to blow most peoples minds..
No big secret really...
I don't care about the instant shine, but actually look at the surface while polishing.
To make sure the sand scratches are fully gone.
Once you learn to stop looking at the shine, and pay attention to "depth"
Polished paint will hold a shine that doesn't ever go away


Whats a good way to do the edges and curves when wet sanding? I see alot of painters sand and leave about 1/4 away from the edges. I have never done that. I just take my sweet ass time and so far so good
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Old 07-21-05, 01:59PM   #30
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As do I, but the sharper the edge, the more likely it is to cut through it. Most guys will tape up the sharp edges and get as close as possible.
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