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Old 03-07-10, 03:01AM   #1
ponchospidel
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Default intake port volume-CC's

What is an average intake volume of the wideport version of the HP heads?

Thanks,

Brad
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Old 03-06-11, 03:47PM   #2
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Brad,
Im not realsure on the WP they were 370cfm from butler and BTR was not happy with the head so he did some other work. My KRE heads I would have to ask, but I can tell you we did no work. We ordred the 350cfm and did cc the chamber and came up w/ 62 rather than the 56 KRE calls them.
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Larry
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Old 03-06-11, 04:40PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponchospidel View Post
What is an average intake volume of the wideport version of the HP heads?

Thanks,

Brad
I'd say around 300-310 cc
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Old 03-06-11, 04:42PM   #4
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I'd say around 300-310 cc

that's a big port for a Pontiac engine
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Old 03-06-11, 07:53PM   #5
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that's a big port for a Pontiac engine
Not when the port is 6" long and not 5.125" (I think that's the number) for a stock Pontiac/Edelbrock head. The extra length increase the cc's.
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Old 03-06-11, 08:54PM   #6
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Isn't port volume determine by bore size...stroke and piston speed needed.
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Old 03-06-11, 09:52PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EC View Post
Cross sectional area is determined from size of engine and rpm. Valve size is determined from bore (then again you could just cram the biggest valve into the bore that will physical fit and call it good). Everything is linked together that is why the good head porters charge so much, it took them YEARS to figure it out and they aren't going to give it away for free. Watch out for the porters that are chasing flow bench numbers to make a name for themselves. What works on the bench doesn't always work on the track.
Well said
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Old 03-06-11, 09:54PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EC View Post
Cross sectional area is determined from size of engine and rpm. Valve size is determined from bore (then again you could just cram the biggest valve into the bore that will physical fit and call it good). Everything is linked together that is why the good head porters charge so much, it took them YEARS to figure it out and they aren't going to give it away for free. Watch out for the porters that are chasing flow bench numbers to make a name for themselves. What works on the bench doesn't always work on the track.
So very true, the good thing about all this is now we know who those head porters are, who knows how to make power.
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Old 03-07-11, 02:31AM   #9
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A 310 cc port 5.125" long has an average CSA of 3.6912 sq. in. - 350 cfm would have 227.57 fps velocity

A 310 cc port 6.0" long has an average CSA of 3.1529 sq. in. - 350 cfm would have 266.42 fps velocity

Note @ 28 inches of water.

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Old 03-07-11, 11:21AM   #10
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A issue of HPP called " CYLINDER HEAD SYMPHONY" has KRE calling the intake port volume at 277cc with as cast 330cfm @ .700 and the WP from Butler port at 275cc with 370cfm @ .750 all at 28in.
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Old 03-07-11, 12:36PM   #11
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A 275 cc port 5.125" long has an average CSA of 3.2744 sq. in. - 370 cfm would have 271.23 fps velocity

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Old 03-10-11, 10:00PM   #12
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EC is right. Port volume really doesn't matter, it's the minimum cross sectional area of the intake port matched to the engine displacement and max engine speed. The max valve size is determined by the bore size and valve angle (canted valves get larger valves in a given bore). If you're running a 45 deg valve seat, the minimum area available is ~ 91% of the valve head diameter. This puts the minimum area in the throat just below the valve seat area and assumes ports aren't area constrained in other areas.

I believe the largest HP head available from KRE are the 400 cfm @ 28" H20 versions. I can't remember the dang minimum area though. Call Jeff at KRE and ask, he'll know off the top of his head.
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Old 03-11-11, 08:35AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDTempest View Post
Not when the port is 6" long and not 5.125" (I think that's the number) for a stock Pontiac/Edelbrock head. The extra length increase the cc's.

yes it is, for a stock block 455 engine

not many stock block engines have port volumes that big, i.e. 320 cc in the cylinder head alone

the CV-1's are perceived as a "big" cylinder head at only 295 cc's

the RA V's same deal
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Old 03-11-11, 08:40AM   #14
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Quote:
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EC is right. Port volume really doesn't matter, it's the minimum cross sectional area of the intake port matched to the engine displacement and max engine speed.


that's all relative. Port volume requirement is directly tied to engine size and rpm range. A 500-550 CID engine (i.e aftermarket Pontiac IA or MR-1) isn't going to have a small volume port. Look around at what the fastest cars are running for port volume now.

in the old days a fully ported Pontiac iron head had maybe 190-225 cc's

now everyone is banging on 300 cc's or larger

small block Chevys, circle track/drag racing, have 290 cc intake port, splayed valve heads, for only 350-400 CID

http://www.m2race.com/product_specs.asp?ID=50

GM Splayed Valve
- Product Specifications -
Head Name: Splayed Valve
Engine Type: SB Chevy 358" - 400"
Manufacturer: GM
Applications: Drag Racing, Oval Track

FlowTest Data
Bore Diameter: 0
Intake Valve Diameter: 2.23
Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55
Chamber Volume: 45cc
Intake Port Volume: 288cc



if they are using 288 cc heads for a small block 350 CID Chevy, think what a 500 CID Pontiac needs

certainly not the same exact port volume, for an extra 150 CID, unless the engine is being revved a lot lower
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Old 03-11-11, 05:45PM   #15
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Port volume is determined by length and area of the port. Areas determine velocity on the running engine which is what matters, not volume. The larger the engine and higher the rpm, the more area needed (which intern drives larger volumes). I'm pretty familiar with what stock and aftermarket heads have to offer in area.

A 500 CID engine at 7000 rpm will need a minimum area of ~3.15 sq in for good power. That's a 2.25" valve with a 45 deg and the minimum area in the throat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedo View Post
that's all relative. Port volume requirement is directly tied to engine size and rpm range. A 500-550 CID engine (i.e aftermarket Pontiac IA or MR-1) isn't going to have a small volume port. Look around at what the fastest cars are running for port volume now.

in the old days a fully ported Pontiac iron head had maybe 190-225 cc's

now everyone is banging on 300 cc's or larger

small block Chevys, circle track/drag racing, have 290 cc intake port, splayed valve heads, for only 350-400 CID

http://www.m2race.com/product_specs.asp?ID=50

GM Splayed Valve
- Product Specifications -
Head Name: Splayed Valve
Engine Type: SB Chevy 358" - 400"
Manufacturer: GM
Applications: Drag Racing, Oval Track

FlowTest Data
Bore Diameter: 0
Intake Valve Diameter: 2.23
Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55
Chamber Volume: 45cc
Intake Port Volume: 288cc



if they are using 288 cc heads for a small block 350 CID Chevy, think what a 500 CID Pontiac needs

certainly not the same exact port volume, for an extra 150 CID, unless the engine is being revved a lot lower
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