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Old 10-28-09, 09:26PM   #16
68GTO
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I checked my Dyno 5 Sim. Combo I ran through is 4.150 bore X 4.25 stroke, Single plane with 1050 cfm, 10.5 C.R., used the last HP flow #'s from my previous post, 255/263 @ .050, .418 lobes w/1.65 rockers=.670 lift and 109 LSA. With the cam installed at 109 ICL it made 611 hp @ 6000 and 607 tq @ 4500 with 456 hp and 545 tq averages. With it installed at 102 ICL it made 590 hp @ 5500 and 613 tq @ 4000 with 447 hp and 542 tq averages. Not sure how accurate these #'s would be compared to a real motor. The numbers don't go up much at a 11.00 C.R. Just a couple numbers.
I also tried a 300/310, 264/272 @ .050, .42 lobes w/1.65 rockers=.673 lift and 110 LSA at 106 ICL solid roller based on Comps HiTech lobes. It came up with 620 hp @ 6000 and 606 tq @ 4500 with 458 hp and 542 tq averages.
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Old 10-29-09, 02:05AM   #17
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is it true that the hp head can pickup 55cfm goin from a 2" pipe to a 2.125" pipe on the xhuast side???
my dad's heads only showed 235 on a superflow bench, but it was a 2"pipe, they suposedly flowed 290 from the builders sheet, with no note of the pipe used.
thanks,
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Old 10-29-09, 04:58PM   #18
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Ive seen 30+cfm after they were ported going 2" to 2.125, 55 seams out there a ways but who knows, they do have a good ex port
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Old 10-29-09, 09:03PM   #19
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68gto Don't let the bogus flow numbers blow your mind they are only as good as the operator of the flow bench and whether they have a ax to grind with KRE. You don't need any more cam than you got to get 600hp. The Hp's are too efficient to run your ICl at 102. The only thing I would do different would run a 110 or 112 and put it in at 108 or 109.We had a set of 310's D-ports on the dyno today with a 4.5 stroke at 490CI and it made 609hp and we are not done yet. This was without a vac. pump. It should make 625 or so before we are done. On our JKM 400 flow bench the HP's flow 336 cfm and we call it 330 for the ones that don't know how to run a flow bench. The JKM is a pita type bench and the exhaust will read a little higher than a super flow on the exhaust but the intake will be close if done right. If someone else did the valve job all bets are off. As far as making 600hp with HP"s you could do that with one finger up your nose and the other up your butt.
Good Luck
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Old 10-29-09, 10:14PM   #20
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The HP has just about the best Pontiac exhaust port of them all. SDs ex port flows in the 290-300 range. Thats the highest I have heard about. SDs CNC std pushrod version will flow 385+ on the intake and over 290 on the ex. Thats like a as cast Tiger(better ex!) at a much lower cost and no offset BS.
The High Port is the best all around Pontiac race head at this point, best bang for the buck. They start out at 330cfm as cast and can go all the way too just about 400cfm without offset lifters and rockers. And go to a wp 420-430 cfm like Stallions or even a 450cfm head like Bartons oval port artwork.
They are at home on a 428 or a 540, still use standard Pontiac stuff. Nothing special to make them run.
I am looking for a used set of E heads to go on my 462 this winter. Dont have the coin to finish a MR1 for the CNC HPs. I could run them(HPs) on it but I would have to use too small a intake valve compared to the port. Even on a big bore block you need to be careful with very large valves and a big roller with HPs as the valves will hit each other if everything is not just right.
I just want to shut some people up at the track and some basic E heads will get me to the 10 flat range so they can take a long hard look at my bumper.
Even if I went with a valve small enough to run on a 4.155 bore the SD CNC High Ports will force me to spin the stroker to the moon you would think.
So if any of you guys know of someone who wants to sell some used E heads I am looking.
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Old 10-29-09, 10:43PM   #21
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thanks, that is good to know, they were ported from kre and have the larger 1.75 exhaust valve.
the reason i am asking, is that i am going to build my dad a set of headers over the winter, what would be best, 2.125 then step to 2.25 or just make it 2.25 the whole way. engine will be a 505 w/14.0:1 compression.
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Old 10-29-09, 11:27PM   #22
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ken c,

Thanks for the info. I already have the cam. I guess I could sell it and get another or do you think it would work with it installed at 109 ICL or even 107. I want the HP's because of the best bang for the buck. I already have the pistons also. They are 4.150 ROSS(got a good deal on them) for a 400 stroker with a 6.8 rod and 4.25 stroke. So I guess I'm stuck with the 460 c.i. Have to buy a little at a time so it will probably be awhile before I get it finished unless I win a load of cash somehow. LOL. I want it to run on pump gas because I drive my car on the street also. I used to have a KRE built 463 in my 68 GTO but I had to sell it for financial reasons. It's red with flames, you might have seen it at Norwalk. I would like to get my car in the 10.50 range on the motor. It ran 11.30's with the 463.

Bret

Last edited by 68GTO : 10-30-09 at 12:21AM.
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Old 10-30-09, 09:09AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68GTO View Post
ken c,

Thanks for the info. I already have the cam. I guess I could sell it and get another or do you think it would work with it installed at 109 ICL or even 107. I want the HP's because of the best bang for the buck. I already have the pistons also. They are 4.150 ROSS(got a good deal on them) for a 400 stroker with a 6.8 rod and 4.25 stroke. So I guess I'm stuck with the 460 c.i. Have to buy a little at a time so it will probably be awhile before I get it finished unless I win a load of cash somehow. LOL. I want it to run on pump gas because I drive my car on the street also. I used to have a KRE built 463 in my 68 GTO but I had to sell it for financial reasons. It's red with flames, you might have seen it at Norwalk. I would like to get my car in the 10.50 range on the motor. It ran 11.30's with the 463.

Bret
68 gto If you want to use your cam I would install it at 107 and you will be fine. You might lose a couple of hp compared to the optiminal setup but not enough to notice.
good luck
Ken
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Old 10-30-09, 10:52PM   #24
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Ken C.,
--my DAD'S car, i will be building headers over the winter,
his combo will be a 505, your ported hp heads, comp will be 14.0:1, induction will be a gustram(ported and matched to the heads), w/moded 750 afb's,
the cam he has left is a comp cam solid roller, 272/284 @.050, .440 lobes, ground on a 113* lobe seperation with a 109*intake centerline straight up, lift will be .700 net. fuel will be 110 as linda's, she is at 14.66:1 w/34* timing and no problems with a set of your cnc e heads.
-the car is his 62 catalina, race weight 3200#, 4.10 gear mt 31.5X10.5w slicks, TH400 and a coan 4500 converter(same as linda's), he will be using the foot brake to leave the line, and i have told him tha i think this combo might want around a 7400-7600shift point.
were would you recomend the shift point,
were would you put the cam at 109 or 106?
were would you recomend the total timing be set at?,
what would you recomend for headers,(he has some 2.25-4" colectors, and some good 2.125" header plates), should i make the headers 2.125" and step them to 2.25" or just make them 2.25" all the way?

thanks,
the Spidel family.
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Old 10-31-09, 08:26AM   #25
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Sounds like your cam is ground advanced allready so I would leave it at 109. either headers would work ok but the step headers may be a shade better.
Ken
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Old 10-31-09, 04:59PM   #26
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Ken,
thanks.
were do you think it would like to be shifted?
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Old 10-31-09, 05:41PM   #27
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probably high 6000 range 6700or6800
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Old 11-03-09, 07:28PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponchospidel View Post
Ken C.,
--my DAD'S car, i will be building headers over the winter,
his combo will be a 505, your ported hp heads, comp will be 14.0:1, induction will be a gustram(ported and matched to the heads), w/moded 750 afb's,
the cam he has left is a comp cam solid roller, 272/284 @.050, .440 lobes, ground on a 113* lobe seperation with a 109*intake centerline straight up, lift will be .700 net. fuel will be 110 as linda's, she is at 14.66:1 w/34* timing and no problems with a set of your cnc e heads.
-the car is his 62 catalina, race weight 3200#, 4.10 gear mt 31.5X10.5w slicks, TH400 and a coan 4500 converter(same as linda's), he will be using the foot brake to leave the line, and i have told him tha i think this combo might want around a 7400-7600shift point.
were would you recomend the shift point,
were would you put the cam at 109 or 106?
were would you recomend the total timing be set at?,
what would you recomend for headers,(he has some 2.25-4" colectors, and some good 2.125" header plates), should i make the headers 2.125" and step them to 2.25" or just make them 2.25" all the way?

thanks,
the Spidel family.
Hey Brad. I'd think you will be making peak HP around 7200 so shifting around 7400-7600 as you said and trapping 7200 looks optimal.

You have a large split in that cam. Planning on NOS? I think 112 may be a better fuel. Or E85?

Ask Bruce Wilkie about the headers and cam. I think with that engine and the split, 2.125-2.25 step would be optimal.
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Old 11-03-09, 10:16PM   #29
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those shift points are about what i came up with.
the cam is left over from my dad's 565,
it broke a rod at norwalk(in linda's car)
due to water in the cylinder and bent the crank, the cylinder has about 10 craks running throught it and was drydecked, i suspect a thin or weak cylinder, we are going to have it sonic tested. hope fully we can save the block. i hope my dad has a great season next year, this one has been real rough on him.
i wish i could talk him into letting me put about 175hp shot on it.
thanks for the info!

brad.
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Old 11-03-09, 11:03PM   #30
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you and your family have showed a ton of perseverance and dedication to pontiacs, good luck with the new bullet
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