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Old 06-11-11, 01:06AM   #16
Stan Weiss
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Why not, I mean out side of the carb, why couldn't I bolt them on my short block and make the same HP, We know the quality of the short block is important, good rings. Ring seal, as light as possible rotating assembly. I'd like to here your reasoning why.
Will your CR be the same? If you are not running flat top pistons, will the domes be shaped the same as his domes? Will your headers have the same tube diameter and length also will the collectors have the same diameter and length as his? Is he running lower tension rings than you? Does he have an oil pan / windage system than saves more HP than your.

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Old 06-11-11, 08:45AM   #17
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think its very doable with todays parts and tech. Who's not to say a good tuner couldnt get more out of it even.. I read so many posts on Forums of guys that cant make a Pontiac run. And so many local expert shops that build their motors. Out of all the shops I've dealt with over the years. Out of say 50 machine shops All build a good motor. I bet only 5 can do a Pontiac correctly. They have their own way of running. Cant build them like a Chevy, Ford , or Dodge. Just like you cant build a Chevy and Dodge the same way.
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Old 06-11-11, 02:03PM   #18
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EC, yes.
What are the other variables.
Build a good shortblock with like components and great ring seal. Step one.
Get the right carb. That might take some doing but it can be done.
Get headers as least as good as yours.
There is not a whole lot more to it.
Find the right timing.
Proper jetting and air bleeds.
Cam degreed in the same spot.

What do you think, this is some sort of NASA project.

In fact, I bet I could buy APs 450cfm Tigers, worked Tiger intake and a 535 shortblock built by Big Speed and make more than your 890.
Is there some reason I could not, assuming I had the dollars to spend on it.
If you took your heads and let someone digitize them someone else could make the same power as you. Your intake, as it was cut in half might be hard to duplicate with a 5 axis machine. I do not know. But I bet someone could make a repeatable CNC program for a BOP that would work at least as well.
I just do not know why you think is so hard or secretive to make power.
Its all about the induction system. And you can just buy them ready to make power.

Last edited by Dragncar : 06-11-11 at 02:19PM.
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Old 06-11-11, 04:23PM   #19
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If I was going after 890 HP on pump gas, there's only a few people out there who could do it. To pay that kind of money I'd go to the ones with proven track record. Definitely allot to it, but I would say an induction package from anyone of them is the way to go.
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Old 06-11-11, 04:30PM   #20
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The power is in the induction package,but some internet educated racer-engine builder will still manage to screw it up,the rest is Race engine builder 101.Bill C.
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Old 06-11-11, 04:49PM   #21
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BTR( Bill Trevato)Olds man, John Kaase, Ford man and BES (Tony Bischoff) Ford. They have all built some sick Pontiac power.
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Old 06-11-11, 05:00PM   #22
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The power is in the induction package,but some internet educated racer-engine builder will still manage to screw it up,the rest is Race engine builder 101.Bill C.
Exactly, your not going to bolt on a induction package with out dynoing the motor. Could I buy your package and make that kind of power, sure could, because number one it would be on the dyno and as you said I'd have to follow your instuctions. Which would include oil pan to carb, wall finish and ring package.
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Old 06-11-11, 06:40PM   #23
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There are some very gifted head guys out there that do understand how to make power. But seriously I think their a small bunch. The guys that have done my heads arnt Pontiac specific But understand the Difference between a Pontiac,Chevy and Fords needs. Most dont. Just wondering EC what combination you run and what kind of numbers you getting with Your head guy, If I may ask?? If you deal with most local speed shops and have them do your Pontiac Think you gonna fall short of its true Potential. As i said above but i do agree their is a few gifted head guys around that can make anything run..



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LOL totally disagree here. My head/intake guy isn't a Pontiac guy he ports all makes and probably has only ported 10 or so sets of Pontiac heads. My engine guy is a Ford man, the only Pontiacs he has built are mine and my dads. The fastest NA Pontiacs are NOT built by Pontiac guys. If your good your good and can make power with anything!

Last edited by bryan67gto : 06-11-11 at 06:42PM. Reason: finished thought
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Old 06-12-11, 12:15AM   #24
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LOL well there you have it, it is just that easy.
All short blocks are created equal, all tuners are equal, all machinist are equal, and all builders are equal. Hell not sure why everyone isn't making 1050hp. Can you answer that? Every Tiger headed engine out there should be making 1050 why aren't they? If all it takes is Tiger heads and intake and their spec'd cam these engines should be a dime a dozen.
It is going to just like when you would a little kid. You will take all of the parts out of the boxes and put them together just like using an erector set.

This is not plug and play.

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Old 06-12-11, 08:30AM   #25
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what combo your running and track results. To me HP dont mean shit. KNow alot of guys over years claim big HP but car sure dont show it on the track.


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What do you want to know about my combo, head flow or horsepower or track results?
Those local speed shops will fall short on ALL engines not just Pontiac engines.
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Old 06-12-11, 12:53PM   #26
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Just changed to a Tiger intake from dual sheet metal.Also changed cams. Motor is on methanol.
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Old 06-12-11, 02:43PM   #27
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"Every Tiger headed engine out there should be making 1050, why aren't they?
Tiger heads go 380 as cast.
Big Speeds CNC heads go 450. With the intake worked to do what it need to do by him, the cam he tells you will make the power you have the essential ingredients to make the 1050+
Show me the High Ports that truly go over 420cfm and their engines are not making power. All of Big Speeds 450cfm heads have made big power as far as I know.
Do you assemble your engines and shortblocks EC. I am trying to figure out why you think its so hard to do ?
If a shortblock has the right parts, the bore is truly "round" the clearances are "right", the hone is as needed, the ring end gaps are right, the main and rod clearances are "right",side clearances are right, the whole thing is assembled right,cam is degreed right, timing is in the right place and the carb is tunned correctly that thing will make power.
Look, its not as easy as pie.
But its not rocket science either and a lot of people can do it if they have the money, desire and the attention to detail.

Last edited by Dragncar : 06-12-11 at 03:30PM.
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Old 06-12-11, 04:00PM   #28
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TBH Worry NEVER crossed my mind. Since were somewhat in the same area Hoping I run into at the track maybe late summer or this fall Would love to check out another Poncho.May not be against ya in the other lane unless you got and ET on your back window, But will be out soon. Since I'm doing the NA thing til winter when i go Procharged. Just think with the tech and Power out there today. Assembling a 1000Hp motor pretty easy to do. making it run #'s maybe a diff story.



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Mine is just a little pump gas (11:1 compression) 496 pig. I wouldn't worry about mine.
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Old 06-12-11, 04:02PM   #29
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you'll have to let us know what the changes produce. I definitly look foward to seeing your car in person some day. Flat out just Awsome job. Keep it going..


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Just changed to a Tiger intake from dual sheet metal.Also changed cams. Motor is on methanol.
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Old 06-12-11, 06:24PM   #30
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got 5 more nites of work then off 8 days. If all goes well will be up and running over the 8 days. Motor is ready to go into car. Sitting on stand right in front. Only thing i'll need then is new slicks. before i can hit the track.Dont want to trust mine been a few years since i ran on them they holding air but can see some dry cracks. New front tires showed up other day. Still debating on staying fat 32x14.5's or dropping down to 10.5 x 33's just to give me another class to possibly jump in to so havnt ordered rears. Will hit track start of July for sure.
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