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Old 06-15-19, 10:51PM   #136
thomas flaherty
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Keith, at the very least get some of the 300$ 5140 china crap. They are much better. But if you spend that much might as well spend 400$ and get some 4340 H beams.
But, if you know where one good SD 455 rod is, I sold my SD 455 rods for 450$ and the guy needed only one rod. Bet he will sell the 7 for 300-350$. At least they are a good USA rod.
I was on RPM Crankshaft a couple days ago and the Pontiac 5140 rods are no longer on the web site ???
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Old 06-16-19, 04:08AM   #137
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I was on RPM Crankshaft a couple days ago and the Pontiac 5140 rods are no longer on the web site ???
Pro Warrior rods are 285$ at KRE. Same thing or close to it.
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Old 06-16-19, 08:00PM   #138
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One thing I noticed in Machinery's Handbook that might be of interest and more relevant today in choosing available rods is that 4340 steel varies in tensile strength by as much as 100% according to whether and how it was heat treated. It seems (from my novice perspective) to increase by the hardness the material achieves and so could be estimated by a non-destructive hardness test. Unlike 1140, 4340 was made to be used heat-treated, has nickel and chromium added, and is pretty much stronger across the board. MH outlines various hardness tests as well as heat treatments and their results. I will try to get set up so I can at least hardness test my old race motor rods, my spare 62 set, as well as the new CATs for my current motor.
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Old 06-16-19, 08:06PM   #139
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Make you "spare 62 set" garage wall art, please. For your own good. There is simply no process on earth that would make them a strong rod. Other than replacement with one of quality steel.
4340 is steel like a Snap On wrench.
62 rods are steel like your valve covers are pressed out of.
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Old 06-16-19, 10:19PM   #140
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One thing I noticed in Machinery's Handbook that might be of interest and more relevant today in choosing available rods is that 4340 steel varies in tensile strength by as much as 100% according to whether and how it was heat treated. It seems (from my novice perspective) to increase by the hardness the material achieves and so could be estimated by a non-destructive hardness test. Unlike 1140, 4340 was made to be used heat-treated, has nickel and chromium added, and is pretty much stronger across the board. MH outlines various hardness tests as well as heat treatments and their results. I will try to get set up so I can at least hardness test my old race motor rods, my spare 62 set, as well as the new CATs for my current motor.
So basically what they Rockwell at.
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Old Yesterday, 07:03PM   #141
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According to MH the following specs for common rod materials initial state of milled material and after best heat treatment (that I could find)

Material Tensile strength Hardness (Bhn) Hardness Rockwell C

1140(1040)
As rolled 90000/60000 201 11
Best heat treat 130000/96000 514 50

4140
Normalized 148000/95000 302 30
Best heat treat 257000/238000 510 50

5140
Normalized 115000/68000 229 17
Best heat treat 260000/238000 490 48

4340
Normalized 185000/125000 363 37
Best heat treat 272400/243000 520 51


Obvious that unheat-treated 1140 material is the weakest steel according to tensile strength, and by best heat treating process it only eclipses unheat-treated 5140. I could not find specs on cast iron later rods were made of. Will keep looking as Im curious, also about aluminum. My guess is there was no safety factor at all with the unheat-treated 1140 ones installed in 58-62 production cars, however they were just barely adequate to be problem free in normal road cars. They probably did poop quickly if you threw slicks and 4:11's at a 389 road car and went to strip and so the rod chucker reputation. Don't believe there was such an animal as a 58-62 cast rod, I cant find part number on them. If they did exist HO books are wrong.
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Old Yesterday, 07:35PM   #142
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I think cast rods started in like 67.There was a later passenger forged rods in I think 63-66 and have been told not much better.Tom
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Old Yesterday, 08:19PM   #143
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If anyone cares I was just on Rockauto pricing 113m bearings, well seeing recon rods Engine Tech has recon rods ECR309 saying forged ???? $25 ea only have 15. I think it a miss print but who knows
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Old Today, 11:07AM   #144
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tjs44,
The cast "armasteel" rods started showing up in late 1963 according to all the lit I've seen.
First engine I ever built was a '63 389 but for the the life of me I couldn't tell ya if they were cast or forged That was back when I was 19 years old and knew everything! LOL


Thomas,
Those are "forgery" rods . LOL
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Old Today, 01:25PM   #145
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Think "Arma-steel" moniker was applied to cast cranks .. and rods?? that had been treated with a surface treatment to increase hardness, something like nitriding if not exactly that. It helps durability but does not increase core strength. They had to stop using that term as it was misleading I believe.

MH makes a distinction between case and core hardening, I believe the tensile strength numbers in the previous post were of core strength though I do not know for sure as I haven't read the whole "Standard Steels" section and am no expert. I believe core strength is what would matter with connecting rods.

There is undoubtably factors in design of the rod that make one better than another, but the raw material is pretty important. Think I would pick early SD 4140 rods over 5140, and late SD over them ... if I could find them Wish SCAT would come out with a Pro-Comp 4340 SD I-beam with 7/16 cap screws. Maybe that's pretty much what a Molnar is?
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