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Engine Buildups in progress Tell us what your latest project is, and post a few pics.

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Old 09-15-07, 02:17PM   #1
jarrett
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Default 389 with #77 Heads

Hello everyone! Im new to the forum, and this is my 1st post. I just built a 389 with #77 heads. It is the numbers matching 389, out of the 65 GTO. This engine build was ALOT of work for me. The core was REALLY, REALLY rough. You don't even wan't to know what I went through with the heads. I even had to braise up rust holes in the oil pan!(They wanted to retain all the stock shit metal) The engine will be on the dyno wendsday. Any ideas on what I should expect? Thanks, J

The basic combo is

-65 389 block 4.120' bore
-Stock crankshaft turned .010''/.020''
-Scat H beam rods(stock'')
-Custom made Wiseco pistons 10:1 CR/ Total seal
-ARP main stud
-65 #77 heads Ported 230cfm@.575' 1.92', 1.64'(was alot of work!)
-Isky street roller 244@.050, .550', 108LS, with SD lifter brase
-Performer RPM, minor porting, 750cfm Holley HP
-Harland 1.5's
-Stock pan, tray, water pump etc.
-The engine will be dynoed on pump gas, mufflers, mechanical water pump, and with a Heavy 33LB std Flywheel. (was ballanced with engine)
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Old 09-16-07, 01:48AM   #2
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looks like a good set up,looking forward to the dyno numbers ,hope it's faster then the truck !!

don't see that many of that year anymore ,looks like a ripper
after you spank a little honda ,then you can run him over
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Old 09-16-07, 02:30AM   #3
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Oh man !! I wish you could have found us before this stage! I have a 389 with #77 heads in my 63 2 door sedan Catalina. There is a combustion chamber mod that really picks up power and airflow. But don't worry about it now. My guess is a true 425- 445hp range, with 475-500 lbs. of torque. (of course this is a rough guess since I have no idea on the portwork done and it's result).
If you did not modify the chambers, you won't get more than a 36 degrees total without "ping" on pump gas unless your pumpgas is alot better than ours. (very possible as ST. Louis area "epa correct" gas is in no way a gas that should be considered usible!)

Get 1.65 rockers on it ASAP! You have to open the valve as much as possible to clear the combustion chamber walls. And no, I don't care what anyone says about port airflow peaks on a combo like this. The stuff has to get around the valve head and into the chamber, not stopping at the closed combustion chamber walls. Will the springs handle .604" lift (if you don't subtract the lash setting)?
Do let us know how it does. Should be a very solid engine with alot of long life.
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Old 09-16-07, 04:49AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GET IT ON View Post
Oh man !! I wish you could have found us before this stage! I have a 389 with #77 heads in my 63 2 door sedan Catalina. There is a combustion chamber mod that really picks up power and airflow. But don't worry about it now. My guess is a true 425- 445hp range, with 475-500 lbs. of torque. (of course this is a rough guess since I have no idea on the portwork done and it's result).
If you did not modify the chambers, you won't get more than a 36 degrees total without "ping" on pump gas unless your pumpgas is alot better than ours. (very possible as ST. Louis area "epa correct" gas is in no way a gas that should be considered usible!)

Get 1.65 rockers on it ASAP! You have to open the valve as much as possible to clear the combustion chamber walls. And no, I don't care what anyone says about port airflow peaks on a combo like this. The stuff has to get around the valve head and into the chamber, not stopping at the closed combustion chamber walls. Will the springs handle .604" lift (if you don't subtract the lash setting)?
Do let us know how it does. Should be a very solid engine with alot of long life.
Mid 400's would be great. This was the 1st set of early pontiac heads I have messed with, and I couldn't experiment too much with them being they were the original heads, and I had to use them. Would have been nice to had a experimantal head to mess with. As for the rocker arms I wanted to use 1.65's, I just couldn't get the geometry the way I wanted with the long valves I was afraid to cut the spring pads any further, due to the really rusty waterjackets. As is Im only .050'' off coil bind. I was told I wouldn't be able to get over 215-220cfm out of those heads by Butlet, and a few others. I did do a little chamber work but nothing major. My flow numbers arn't great but for a head that started in the 140's I think they are ok. This is on a stingy SF 600, with a 4.125 bore. @28" What are good numbers for this head?


Intake 1.92''
-.200'' = 141cfm
-.300 ''= 191cfm
-.400'' = 217cfm
-.500'' = 223cfm
-.550'' = 228cfm
-.575'' = 230cfm
-.625'' = 232cfm

Don't have the exhaughst #s hear. Max flow was around 170 cfm.
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Old 09-16-07, 05:10AM   #5
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Old 09-16-07, 06:37AM   #6
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Welcome to the forum. I live in Fountain (when I'm home...). Who did your machine work?
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78 T/A 463, Ultradyne custom cam, very ported Greg Merrick Heads, TH400, 3.31 12 bolt, 3425lbs


81 T/A 350 sbc vortec heads 4 speed 3.42 posi
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Old 09-16-07, 07:48AM   #7
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Welcome to the forum. I live in Fountain (when I'm home...). Who did your machine work?
Thanks! I have seen a few TA's driving around hear. My friend Mark Jones hear in the springs does my machine work.
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Old 09-16-07, 08:14AM   #8
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Nice combo you put together. Do you race that truck down in Pueblo?
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78 T/A 463, Ultradyne custom cam, very ported Greg Merrick Heads, TH400, 3.31 12 bolt, 3425lbs


81 T/A 350 sbc vortec heads 4 speed 3.42 posi
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Old 09-16-07, 08:26AM   #9
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Nice combo you put together. Do you race that truck down in Pueblo?
Thanks. I ran it a few times this summer. Dosn't like this altitude though. The best I could get out of it with the 9000' DA has been 12.20's. @ pueblo, and 12.30's Bandemere (10,000) + DA Every time I ran it was 85-100 deg. Have you been down there with your car this year?
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Old 09-16-07, 08:36AM   #10
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Not this year, I'm in Iraq at the moment. I haven't raced my car in several years do to being overseas. I was hoping to test out the new motor last month when I was home for R&R but couldn't pull it off. Yea, our altitude is a problem ha? Went to the Mile High Nats about 10 years ago. Seems like 1 out of 3 runs the big boys were oiling down the track.
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78 T/A 463, Ultradyne custom cam, very ported Greg Merrick Heads, TH400, 3.31 12 bolt, 3425lbs


81 T/A 350 sbc vortec heads 4 speed 3.42 posi
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Old 09-16-07, 08:44AM   #11
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Not this year, I'm in Iraq at the moment. I haven't raced my car in several years do to being overseas. I was hoping to test out the new motor last month when I was home for R&R but couldn't pull it off. Yea, our altitude is a problem ha? Went to the Mile High Nats about 10 years ago. Seems like 1 out of 3 runs the big boys were oiling down the track.
Same thing happend at the diesel DHRA race at Bandemere this summer. Most the fast trucks broke trying to run fast up hear. The rest were half to a full second more slower. People think the altitude is a bunch of hype untell they see for them selves. There is a HUGE difference between 4500' DA, and 10,000'DA. My friends that have ran there cars up hear won't even come back.
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Old 09-16-07, 09:08AM   #12
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You're right about that. Ever get over to Laniers? He is the only guy around that I know of who can consistently get down the track FAST without tearing up too much stuff.
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81 T/A 350 sbc vortec heads 4 speed 3.42 posi
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Old 09-16-07, 10:41AM   #13
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Hi Jarrett,
So you got to see us change an allison transmission a pass at mile high eh? (Orange Crush 70 Chevy step side).
I'm trying to talk Chris and Scott into a lenco or bruno trand for next year! Tired of looking up under the truck and getting those overweight trans out & back in! In fact this weekend Steve Cole from TTS is here working with us on trans programing, but the truck accellerates too quick for the computer changeover to mechanical part of alllisons. Now, to just find how far in advance to make it start shifting so it will happen when we need it too. 9testing the other night in just 1/8 showed we are taking 1.4 seconds to make gear changes in just the 1/8!!! That's 1/2 second e.t. right there in the first half of a 1/4 mile pass. That's enough to put the truck into the 9.80's.

Back to your engine, the engine looks great. One option could have been .050" locks, or .050" retainers.
cfm wise you did good. Mine were 245cfm at .600". What was the exhaust flow? A ratio that you might have gotten to work is a sbf 1.6. But you would be right at your max lift vs. coil bind. Do let us know how the dyno'ing goes.
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Old 09-16-07, 11:03AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GET IT ON View Post
Hi Jarrett,
So you got to see us change an allison transmission a pass at mile high eh? (Orange Crush 70 Chevy step side).
I'm trying to talk Chris and Scott into a lenco or bruno trand for next year! Tired of looking up under the truck and getting those overweight trans out & back in! In fact this weekend Steve Cole from TTS is here working with us on trans programing, but the truck accellerates too quick for the computer changeover to mechanical part of alllisons. Now, to just find how far in advance to make it start shifting so it will happen when we need it too. 9testing the other night in just 1/8 showed we are taking 1.4 seconds to make gear changes in just the 1/8!!! That's 1/2 second e.t. right there in the first half of a 1/4 mile pass. That's enough to put the truck into the 9.80's.

Back to your engine, the engine looks great. One option could have been .050" locks, or .050" retainers.
cfm wise you did good. Mine were 245cfm at .600". What was the exhaust flow? A ratio that you might have gotten to work is a sbf 1.6. But you would be right at your max lift vs. coil bind. Do let us know how the dyno'ing goes.
I was there! You guys had allready repaired the trans by the time I got there. That is a really nice truck! I have a Black 69 st side out in CA. Ran 10.789 @ 124MPH with the 505 that is in my 70 4x4. I can tell from the BIG MPH that you guys are running that the trans is robbing you. That truck is impressive for sure. I hate the way those allisons shift! I wounder if a built 4l80E would last a pass or two. My exhaughst was around 170. I have the highest retainers I could get, along with the plus .050'' locks.
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Old 09-16-07, 11:54PM   #15
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Jarrett, what a killer idea putting a Pontiac in a what looks like
a 1950's or early 60 Chevy pick-up, those things are solid.
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