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Old 03-03-20, 03:01AM   #106
Dragncar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith View Post
Was trying to find thread where Dragncar mentions modifying oilhole/main bearing entry for better high rpm oil delivery can someone please point me as I canít seem to locate now. Was interested in this mod and I still may be able to do in the 444.
The 3 holes intersect, its the one opposite the "tab" that gets the oil shot. If you do not do this or you bearings do not have a oil slot instead of a round hole the oil has to hit the back of the bearing, move over and go through the hole in the middle. I have some old bearings with this done. I will try and post a pic but its hard here because of file size. If I can't I will get it to Gach and he can put it up for you and anyone else that wants to do it.
it is one of the main reasons my 455 has lasted from 1990 to this day, running strong.
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Old 03-03-20, 12:47PM   #107
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Hey thanks for response Dragncar! I was hoping for pics as I am trying to visualize the mod with my block at a local machine shop. My main and rod bearings were torqued into block and connecting rods by R+L in Dover to get "grind to" measurements for crank 3+ years ago when my wait for crank began. They have not been disassembled since. Just got crank. Would like to understand and correctly apply this mod to this build if I can, and any future as part of "my" normal engine build. I have 2 bent cranks, one with "lunched" rod journals among my parts collection. I also love the sound of a Poncho revving

Bearings are FMP-113-STD mains and C77-CB-743HN-020 rods. Both Calico CT-1 treated and cryo'd/massaged by Carter Cryo. I'm hoping there will be no surprises when I re-measure with my new bore gage set. Maybe I can still add your mod to mains as well. Do you mod rod brgs at all when you do this to mains-block? Was trying for a stout short block good for usable 6500RPM, possibly boosted eventually.

My short block parts to get there ...
Align honed, torque-plate honed, re-doweled with longer dowels I found on PZ, 72 400 block with stack height set for zero-deck @ 10.220 . SCAT forged crank, CAT 4340 H-beams/ARP 8740 cap screws, ARP main studs with cryo'd factory 2-bolt caps. Romac timing set and Pro SFI balancer. Moroso 7" pan setup, Oberg remote filter with oil cooler radiator(Chev p/u unit - extra oil with cooler).Not sure about windage tray and scraper setup ... leaning towards Butler choices.

My short-block mods to get there ...
Paul C disassembled and massaged M54F oil pump internals and thrust brg surface, I'm plumbing for direct oil entry at factory oil filter mount flange as well as engine compartment route. Could use some experienced input on this. Larger main cap dowels. Zero deck. Long rods (6.900) Lighter stronger pistons. All elements of r/a cryo'd. Was going to try polishing oil passages in crank with flexible polisher. Would like to implement your main brg mod. Was thinking of filling block as it is punched to 4.180 but would have to have it rehoned. It has sat 3+ years, if it needs to be rehoned it will be done by R+L and I might have them fill it to freeze plugs as well. Would have them massage bearings per your idea possibly as well if it needs to go back there. It is at a local shop to me right now. Any other input ideas I might complete before assy I'd be interested in ... believe in "continuous improvement" idea . Short block may eventually see 600+HP.

I am still trying to figure out adding pictures to posts here. Last time I tried I got a computer virus from the the resizing-etc download. Would really like to get this down so I can use in other forums and computer activities. Have an I-phone 10 and am using various windows versions and browsers on several computers.
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Old 03-03-20, 07:36PM   #108
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. Any other input ideas I might complete before assy I'd be interested in ... believe in "continuous improvement" idea . Short block may eventually see 600+HP.
Made over 600 HP with my 400 and didnít do all this.
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Old 03-03-20, 07:53PM   #109
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Reread post 96!Tom
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Old 03-03-20, 08:58PM   #110
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Different strokes for different folks Wanted some safety factor. Sending my Ho-jo cam and Elgin roller-rockies to Paul C to freeze soon. May start with them. Maybe 2 sets of little plugs and 2 sets of big plugs as well to cover bases. Thinking NGK as Butler stocks various heat ranges.
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Old 03-04-20, 02:38PM   #111
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Kieth, point I think is your spending twice amount of money, to accomplish what is really a simple goal. Yes weíre all different and look at things definitely. Iíve been following you for a long time.But also been racing Pontiacs since I was 21, so just trying to be helpful. You seem to have a couple different goals but not one in pacific so it gets a bit confusing and kind of hard to follow at times.
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Old 03-04-20, 07:54PM   #112
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I have a set of H&S 1.65 rockers on my 421 SD engine.First 18 or so years they had 200 on the seats and 600 open.I went to sissy lifters and reduced it to 160 on the seats and 350 open.22 plus years on the same set with no money being spent on them!KISS!
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Old 03-05-20, 01:34PM   #113
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Well I hope I don't come off as snooty or unappreciative of the input I get here. I really do like this forum and want to make a contribution as well as get help with my Pontiac efforts. My process has been somewhat haphazard and I dont recommend it for others.

That said, I am pretty stubborn tho, for example .. it will be an awfully hard decision to not start with Nunzi cam just because I spoke with him personally, and he took the time to advise me how to set it, I respect him and enjoyed talking to him. Car will be mainly a street car that I want to be able to pound and not break. I dont need to be the fastest at the strip ... but would like to make a good showing. I do have a Howards cam that might be a better choice for my application from my perspective that you guys have kinda prodded me towards that may end up in there first however. My dyno will likely be the seat of my pants as the pockets in them are really not that big I do want to flow the heads if I can. I will use iron 96 d-ports heads on this one and will modify them with 7mm SS 2.16/1.65 custom valves hopefully. My largest out of the ordinary expense other than the crank. The young local machinist who will do them demonstrated some enthusiasm for the opportunity and said he could get them right. I decided to give him some "practice sets" for him to gain familiarity with first. The first a done R+L 62 set I had on the shelf for years that just needs to be cleaned up. When he finishes the 62 set I will have gotten tools I need to assemble block at home and will have the head machinist there check me out on them.

My wait finally over for crank I am pleased to have Paul C. be the one to balance, cryo and give me thumbs up on it .. and have taken part in cryoing my r/a and valve train parts. Something I always wanted to try since Joe Mondello put the idea in my head years ago.
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Old 03-30-20, 08:40PM   #114
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OK,the 428 V is in the bird and I already started a new build.It will be a 301-383 stroker RA V engine.Any overs and under if the 383 gets done and running in a car before Keith?I have a block,crank(which will need to have the rods turned to BBC and the thrust welded to fit the 301 block.Have the heads,head gaskets and intake.Will need 6.125 BBC rods(SCAT)pistons(Autotec)and RA V cam that will take at least 12 weeks to make.Have no idea of how long my builder will take on this project!The car will have to have custom headers.Anyone?With this virus crap im bored!Tom
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Old 03-30-20, 09:38PM   #115
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Keith hereís that bearing oil modification picture sent to me by Dragncar
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Old 03-30-20, 09:39PM   #116
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Old 03-30-20, 11:09PM   #117
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Was at machine shop last week. Head machinist(Roger)is using my new bore gauge setup I changed to bigger Starrett .0001 indicator, along with my Starrett mic set alongside his pro stuff to see if he gets reliable readings with mine. He will check me out on using it … I am paying for his time. Showed him Dragncars bearing mod instruction and then we looked at my block … We both thought he meant opening upper bearing shell to entire size of delivery hole and then radiusing edges to aid flow. I have already called R+L about them doing it because it had appeared to me to be something I would prefer experienced person doing. They hadn't emailed me back yet. I think they think I am cuckoo I have FM 3/4 groove mains with no hole just a slot … looked like it might really aid flow tho it reduces bearing area. It is top of bearing not bottom so probably? be alright from a durability standpoint. Am now confused by photos actually. Also wondered why bearing oil hole way smaller than block delivery hole, figured probably so any casting variance the full bearing hole would never get partially covered by (mis)alignment with with delivery hole and leave a "dry spot" in oil delivery to bearing, likely to cause premature bearing failure.

Going over tomorrow or wed taking my oil pan(s) for them to tumble. They have several sets of my cylinder heads and my 7mm Ti valves. Was trying to warm up there younger machinist to Pontiac heads, he has disassembled my 62's and will reassemble once I have my "procedure" for bare heads figured out. We were waiting for Glyptal from Eastwood I just got both aerosol and brush on. Wanted to do oil galley and intake ports to possibly aid flow in both oil back to pan and possibly increase speed through intake port. In observing application videos one said Glyptal should be baked on for best adhesion 2hrs@280 degrees. Then he said Glyptal gets unstable above 300 degrees so I started thinking about intake port temperatures. There is another product called Zybar I may grab to try .. good for 2100 degrees. Be safe NA or boosted. I called them and they said product is suitable for inside intake ports … best application process is clean like for glyptal, no primer, pour into cavity, shake alittle then let drain out. It is smooth and a heat barrier .. will probably try on 62's but am not sure whether intake charge will go up or down, question is will barrier cause charge temp to cylinder to go up or down? Depends on whether temp is aided by port passage dissipating heat or port passage adding to it I would think. ???

PS Thanks Gach,Dragncar !

Last edited by keith : 03-30-20 at 11:10PM. Reason: Thanks
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Old Yesterday, 12:39AM   #118
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Hey Tom you put together a lot of Pontiac motors, what is your recommendation on gaskets? Was looking at Butler Best overhaul set vs Summit Fel Pro sets. Looks like 4 Fel-Pro sets that appl to me ..

ks2616 universal 64
fs8518pt universal 80
2806 performance set 143
ks2617 universal 68

1016 performance head gasket set

wondering if 2806 includes 1016 perf head gasket set.

Butler shows one Fel-pro set with a note on it they recommend a better head gasket PN they don't carry anymore. Then they offer a "Best" kit that has head gaskets included they don't say much about. Was wondering if a Fel-Pro set with their "Performance" head gasket might be as good or better. Summit site doesn't really show differences in Fel-Pro sets. Would perf set have ra4 intake gaskets? Viton valve seals?

Might splurge for Butler viton rear main and rubber-steel oil pan sets for my Moroso pan.
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Old Yesterday, 01:48AM   #119
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Quote:
I have FM 3/4 groove mains with no hole just a slot
Iím confused...are you sure you have the right bearings.
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Old Yesterday, 11:22AM   #120
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I use Felpro gaskets EXCEPT I use the Butler head gaskets and the BOP 1 pc pan gasket and the BOP 1 pc rear main seal.Tom
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