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Old 04-01-19, 07:41PM   #106
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Let me guess their good to 7500 rpms at 1200 hp.
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Old 04-01-19, 08:40PM   #107
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Broke my oil pump drive at 6500 rpm this summer. Took the engine apart changed the bearings and oil pump drive put it back together, beat on it the rest of the summer and still doing so . Guess what ??? EAGLE RODS handled all of that making 200hp per cylinder ! Theres nothing wrong with Eagle rods!! There good rods!!
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Old 04-01-19, 08:53PM   #108
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I lost a Eagle rod once, to this day canít figure out were it went. I think the dog ate it.
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Old 04-01-19, 09:37PM   #109
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I lost a Eagle rod once, to this day canít figure out were it went. I think the dog ate it.
Well at least it ant broke..
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Old 04-01-19, 10:24PM   #110
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They make good muffler clamps
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Old 04-01-19, 10:40PM   #111
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Quote:
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Let me guess their good to 7500 rpms at 1200 hp.
Don't know Gach. The point I am trying to make is they simply are not in the same class as a Eagle or Scat. There are read differences.
I am not trying to say Eagles or Scats are bad rods, not in the least. I run a set like them right now and would have no problem using them in the 461 HP engine going together right now.
But no one uses them in a 2300HP blown engine. Thats the difference. They can take it.
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Old 04-01-19, 11:48PM   #112
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A little birdie told me someone about to buy set of Molnar rods.
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Old 04-02-19, 03:28PM   #113
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A little birdie told me someone about to buy set of Molnar rods.
I think it would be a wise move. You get a lot for you money.
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Old 06-08-19, 09:51AM   #114
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Wonder if I could take the ARP 3/8 8740 cap screws out of my CAT H-beams and use in my 58-62's . Then put ARP 2000 7/16 in CAT's. Had my 58-62's done by Warrior some years ago who put in Pioneer bolts I have no spec on and heat treated I also have no spec on. They might've just breathed on them I will use them in something, most likely a 66 389. ARP will be on the screws or bolts holding them together.


Zedo do you have an outfit that knows how to heat treat them correctly?
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Old 06-08-19, 02:15PM   #115
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Wonder if I could take the ARP 3/8 8740 cap screws out of my CAT H-beams and use in my 58-62's . Then put ARP 2000 7/16 in CAT's. Had my 58-62's done by Warrior some years ago who put in Pioneer bolts I have no spec on and heat treated I also have no spec on. They might've just breathed on them I will use them in something, most likely a 66 389. ARP will be on the screws or bolts holding them together.


Zedo do you have an outfit that knows how to heat treat them correctly?
What ??? Your CAT H beams are 7/16. Show us all a pick of those H beams with 3/8" bolts ???
Now, your PMD rubber rods have 3/8" STUDS. You can not in no way install BOLTS in a rod that had STUDS. Your rubber rods are not threaded. They have a stud with a NUT on the cap end. The studs are pressed in the big end of the rod.
If you heat treat those rubber rods they will still be low carbon steel rods with a heat treat. They get harder on the outside. So they will brinnel test harder. But still soft as butter on the inside.
Now, if you did change to ARP 2000 cap screws on your CAT rods (that have 7/16 8740 cap screws in the right now) you would need to re size the rods since the 2000s require more tq. If you do not your rod will not be ROUND.
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Old 06-09-19, 06:41PM   #116
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Thanks for that info. My CAT rods are in AZ. Was eyeballing factory specs vs CAT specs thinking the 2 torque specs I saw indicated the factory rod bolts were different diameters, possibly 5/16 regular production SD 3/8. I was wrong about size (just measured). Production rods were/are 3/8 bolts and SD 7/16. Had been thinking maybe drill out for next size up bolt. I guess possibility exists to do that to 7/16 size if there is enough meat on rod to not weaken it doing so. Not sure if the mod I had done already resulted in a "press fit" for the Pioneer bolts as they were tightened up when I got them back. Trying to understand the logic of that .. does it increase clamping strength or just done to ease installation?

"Old" books say to use Pontiac rod bolts vs aftermarket, maybe there is an upgrade available within them if I can find it. 3/8"inch 544007 bolt to 7/16 485227 bolt or 7/16 545853 cap screw maybe?

If CAT rods do have 7/16 8740 I will not mess with them. I believe there is enough strength there.

Not expert on heat treating .. I know nitriding is a surface treatment and only goes to a certain depth, am not sure treatment for 1140 steel is only a surface treatment. I would cryo them too as my stuff will continue to go through Paul, that changes structure throughout part I believe. Annealing changes structure throughout as cryo does except at elevated temp vs reduced from what I have read in MH so far.

I have never broken or been a victim of "rubber rod" stretch. Been many moons since I drove a Poncho regularly tho. Was thinking of the 58-62's in a tri-power 66 389 for a 66 Star Chief road car. Don't think there would be an issue with their use in that application.My 69 GTO buddy and 68 Firebird 400 buddy had no issues either.
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Old 06-09-19, 08:32PM   #117
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I would use factory cast rods before I used any 58-62 pass car rods even if heat treated!Tom
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Old 06-10-19, 03:49AM   #118
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Quote:
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Thanks for that info. My CAT rods are in AZ. Was eyeballing factory specs vs CAT specs thinking the 2 torque specs I saw indicated the factory rod bolts were different diameters, possibly 5/16 regular production SD 3/8. I was wrong about size (just measured). Production rods were/are 3/8 bolts and SD 7/16. Had been thinking maybe drill out for next size up bolt. I guess possibility exists to do that to 7/16 size if there is enough meat on rod to not weaken it doing so. Not sure if the mod I had done already resulted in a "press fit" for the Pioneer bolts as they were tightened up when I got them back. Trying to understand the logic of that .. does it increase clamping strength or just done to ease installation?

"Old" books say to use Pontiac rod bolts vs aftermarket, maybe there is an upgrade available within them if I can find it. 3/8"inch 544007 bolt to 7/16 485227 bolt or 7/16 545853 cap screw maybe?

If CAT rods do have 7/16 8740 I will not mess with them. I believe there is enough strength there.

Not expert on heat treating .. I know nitriding is a surface treatment and only goes to a certain depth, am not sure treatment for 1140 steel is only a surface treatment. I would cryo them too as my stuff will continue to go through Paul, that changes structure throughout part I believe. Annealing changes structure throughout as cryo does except at elevated temp vs reduced from what I have read in MH so far.

I have never broken or been a victim of "rubber rod" stretch. Been many moons since I drove a Poncho regularly tho. Was thinking of the 58-62's in a tri-power 66 389 for a 66 Star Chief road car. Don't think there would be an issue with their use in that application.My 69 GTO buddy and 68 Firebird 400 buddy had no issues either.
You can take a long 1/2" grade 8 bolt, good steel right. Grind a point on one end to make a center punch. So you take a cutting torch and heat it up to a cherry red, turn off your oxygen and turn your acetylene down and put black soot (carbon) then dunk it in cold water. The tip of your homemade center punch is hard, tough. Can,t drill through it with a drill bit.
Do it to a grade 5 bolt ( average steel, like a rubber rod) and its only a little hard on the surface. Dents, weak.
Just don,t do it. I traded a set of them for a 71 .030 over 400 block that needs a sleeve. I got the better of the deal.
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Old 06-12-19, 07:03PM   #119
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Not to beat a dead horse, but I remember riding in a 62 Catalina as a 7 year old egging my father on watching the speedo as I wanted him to bury it and being disappointed as it only got to 105mph in a convertible with top down. Never an engine problem with that car till he sold it as it got rust somewhere he couldn't get off with Noxon. My 65 Tempest with an early junkyard 389 in it endured in addition to my many missed shifts that buried tach, a fruitcake mechanic that lost his son in a car like mine hold pedal to floor till I pounded on garage door making him stop, I was eating next door, was my graduation day from high school. Threw timing chain next day and he fixed it. Drove for 2 more years .. motor never apart except for that repair. Finally made a trade for a bright orange 72 Chevelle in Cherry Point NC I have always regretted tho the Sanyo quad 8 track I put in sounded beautiful to Robin Trower "Bridge of Sighs".

So what happens when you do that test with a cast iron bolt made of the same material that was used in the majority of rods and crankshafts installed in Pontiac engines from the factory? How many of those experienced crankshaft and rod failures? Most here want a bulletproof drag-race rod and 58-62's don't fill that bill as well as others more readily available .. I get that. I drug out my machinery's handbook for some reference tho ...

Steel is mainly iron + additives to strengthen it. 3 main categories ..

1. Carbon Steel

1140 C-Mn-Si-Cu

2. Alloy steel

4140 C-Mn-Si-Cu-Cr-Mo
4340 C-Mn-Si-Cu-Cr-Mo-Ni
5140 C-Mn-Si-Cu-Cr

3. Stainless steels

302 C-Mn-Si-Cr-Ni-S-P
304 C-Mn-Si-Cr-Ni-S-P

Iron rods were cast and steel rods were forged, kind of hard to believe an improved material being forced into position would result in a rod with less strength than a lesser one poured into position .. it may be true Im no expert, but believe difference is most likely marginal altho I could not find iron strength numbers.

Early 1140 rods appear to be forged from coarse grained carbon steel that was not heat-treated making it easier to forge them. Also allowing for an improvement in their durability if heat treated by 20-30% at least tensile strength and hardness wise. Possibly more if low temp water-quenched and tempered as they have same characteristic as 1040 steel, at least my novice take from Machinery's Handbook tables. Its kind of like reading the bible tho If treated correctly it appears the hardness is almost equivalent to 4340 though the tensile strength only reaches 50% of 4340 if it is also quenched and tempered .. 73% of untreated 4340.

Conclusion Ö I wont be afraid to use these rods on a street motor but will heat treat them and upgrade the rod bolts. Would use 4340 on high performance build that might see track time.
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Old 06-12-19, 08:29PM   #120
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Keith No one in their right mind is going to go though the expense of heat treating early 62 steel rods and new bolts, in hopes heat treating was done correctly. You doing a big disservice to the Pontiac community suggesting the possibility. Even for a street cruiser. Just like driving around with a grenade with pin out. Please let the dead horse ly
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