PONTIAC ZONE TECH FORUMS
 

Go Back   PONTIAC ZONE TECH FORUMS >
Engine Tech
> Engine Tech Discussion - Street or Strip
User Name
Password

sponser links

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-06-11, 08:44PM   #1
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,610
Default Check It Out

Check out this intake...and this thread John Marcella 837hp 434 CI

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=384148

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	marcellaintake.jpg
Views:	626
Size:	29.9 KB
ID:	24454  
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-11, 08:51PM   #2
Big Speed
Registered User
 
Big Speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Paterson New Jersey
Posts: 124
Default

That is John Marcellas personal Pontiac manifold.He made good power with it and Edelbrock heads on a 434 cu-in,830+hp.Bill C.
__________________
Checkered Flag Machine & Ceralli Competition Engines
Competition engines , Induction development & 5-axis CNC porting
http://www.checkeredflagmachine.net/
Big Speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-11, 09:10PM   #3
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,610
Default

Nice didn't know he was a Pontiac guy...that's one awesome looking intake. Guy is very talented. 830 hp out of a 434 CI with E-Heads.
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-11, 10:35PM   #4
screamingchief
Registered User
 
screamingchief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Austin,Tx.
Posts: 251
Default

Yeah,that build is indeed impressive,no doubt about it.

Sounds like it's using a stock block and crank too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john marcella
I wish i had a good block and a forged crank so i can get after it. Next Build
All I can say is it takes skill and more than just a bit of bravery to make that kinda power with those sorta parts.

Bret P.
screamingchief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-11, 10:54PM   #5
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,610
Default

It's encouraging to see, what's available out side the Pontiac world. Just when we think we've seen it all ( E-heads ) someone surprise us again. Makes you think what would be possible with and IA block and some ci.

Then again, it all falls back to whats affordable, yeah scary making that kind of HP with a stock block. But I think we are now realizing just how antiquate the Victor intakes are. I'd say his intake has allot to do with why he made so much power with 434 ci's.
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-11, 08:56AM   #6
Zedo
prodigal son
 
Zedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,978
Default

the intake is basically a copy of a Victor, with a somewhat bigger plenum.

reading the thread, it sounds like a one-off piece, made only one for his own car

just a different formula top end on the 4" stroke stock block.

nothing new there really. Rudy Dreyfuss made 850+ HP with a tunnel port head and 4" SD421 crank, long time ago, ran 8.30's with it using a Lenco

what is unique about this one, he did it with 1-4 bbl. and a smaller cam

the CSA in the thread says 2.83 and 2.71 (small) I'd like to know the actual port dimensions width and height at the flange, and better yet, the intake port volume.

Looking at the intake, the runners obviously are not small.

that's why it's important to know the intake port volume of the head, then we know exactly how big the port "really" is, compared to other castings of reference.

slide rule it. 837 HP is around 785 HP at the rear wheels

In a 3400 lb car, 9.40's e.t.

Last edited by Zedo : 07-07-11 at 09:35AM.
Zedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-11, 03:33PM   #7
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,610
Default

Well, how bad is the Victor, I guess it depends on how you look at it. A out of the box, port matched (only) Victor just doesn't have the CSA to feed a 505 ci motor, if your trying to make over 850 HP. Which is exactly what my intake is.
You know this already to get the CSA needed that intake needs to be cut in half and a ton of material removed. So what's that intake costing you $290.00 for the intake and another $1800.00 total around $2100.00. So I don't know how bad is the Victor. This is kind of how I look at it, if your heads flow 370 cfm and you loss 12 cfm though the intake now you down to 358 cfm. Now you down to 785 HP. So is there an intake out their that had enough CSA out of the box that only needs port matching for us Pontiac guys.

This is how I think about it, it's going to cost me $2100.00 for the intake. Not saying there's anything wrong with it, you gotta do what you need to make the power you want. Would be nice though if we had and intake for around $600.00 bucks that would do the job.
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-11, 04:11PM   #8
Dragncar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mcinleyville CA
Posts: 647
Default

The Victors are not that bad Gach.
SD has a CNC program for them and they tell me it will not hold back the High Ports flowing 380cfm.
And you can get this done for far less than you are talking about.
You might have to cut them in half for a head that goes 420 or so but that it what the BOPs and Tigers are for.
They have their place.
Dragncar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-11, 04:33PM   #9
Stan Weiss
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia PA
Posts: 782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gach View Post
Well, how bad is the Victor, I guess it depends on how you look at it. A out of the box, port matched (only) Victor just doesn't have the CSA to feed a 505 ci motor, if your trying to make over 850 HP. Which is exactly what my intake is.
You know this already to get the CSA needed that intake needs to be cut in half and a ton of material removed. So what's that intake costing you $290.00 for the intake and another $1800.00 total around $2100.00. So I don't know how bad is the Victor. This is kind of how I look at it, if your heads flow 370 cfm and you loss 12 cfm though the intake now you down to 358 cfm. Now you down to 785 HP. So is there an intake out their that had enough CSA out of the box that only needs port matching for us Pontiac guys.

This is how I think about it, it's going to cost me $2100.00 for the intake. Not saying there's anything wrong with it, you gotta do what you need to make the power you want. Would be nice though if we had and intake for around $600.00 bucks that would do the job.
Did you have your heads flowed with your intake?

If what did he say about a ► ( 1.0 -( 358 / 370 )) * 100 = 3.24% flow from the intake maniflod?

Stan
Stan Weiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-11, 05:34PM   #10
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,610
Default

My Victor is basically just port match. Yes I did flow the heads with the Victor intake 12 cfm drop with the Victor. I basically did it just to see what the heads where. I'm not complaining I was looking to make 720 hp that's what I needed to get into solid 9's. I wanted an easy combo that would make the power in the 6500 range. With basically a street roller, flowing the heads would help me pick the cam, that was my thoughts at the time. Don't know if I would have done it any differently at that time. The first pull it made 650 hp at 5500 I was thrilled with that. 30 pulls altogether with a cam, and carb change, I remember thinking what am I doing. I just wanted a combination that would work with my converter and gear, I was out of money at that point..LOL Nice easy street combo that runs solid 9's drive around.
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-11, 05:41PM   #11
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EC View Post
Let me clear something up. You guys seem to think that since an intake was cut in half that something crazy went on. The reason most intakes are cut in half is simply for easy access (quite a few intakes are now offer as a bolt together for this reason). It just makes life easier for the porter. My intake has NO welding or epoxy done to it (except welding it back together). My intake can be duplicated just fine without cutting it in half but it would take a little longer to port that way. So you have to weigh your options, pay to cut it in half and make porting quicker and easier or don't and pay for the extra time it takes to port it.
Well I for one know that, they don't need any epoxy or welding.
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-11, 08:46PM   #12
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,610
Default

Either way your looking at $2100.00 after buying the intake.
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-11, 12:07AM   #13
TIN TIGR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: concord ca
Posts: 553
Default

i think victor is a funny piece..but why wouldnt it work on "only" 434 inches?..

and the builder sez his edelbrocks are extremely modified..welded, moved,milled, etc..
TIN TIGR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-11, 09:51AM   #14
Zedo
prodigal son
 
Zedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIN TIGR View Post
i think victor is a funny piece..but why wouldnt it work on "only" 434 inches?..

and the builder sez his edelbrocks are extremely modified..welded, moved,milled, etc..

a before/after test on the dyno would be required to prove the intake, Victor vs. the custom piece

and we'd need to know the intake port volume in cc's in the head itself, for valid benchmark comparison to other castings currently available, to know how much the ports were actually opened up

the guy is a top notch engine and intake manifold builder, but that information is conspicuously missing
Zedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-11, 12:16PM   #15
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 18,610
Default

It's simple really..just like the head requires a certain CSA to take care of piston speed, so doesn't the intake. Or else the intake becomes the restriction.
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to Check Pushrod Length? 76transam Engine Tech Discussion - Street or Strip 4 04-27-09 02:30PM
Fuel Level Check in Fuel Cells? CraigG. Engine Tech Discussion - Street or Strip 8 04-12-09 10:26PM
Check out our new Honda V10 on the dyno ANDY MITCHELL Grape Vine - General Discussion 0 11-29-07 01:37PM
ATCO Opener. Check it out!!!! Pontiac Dude Engine Tech Discussion - Street or Strip 5 05-17-07 02:39AM
Check it out!!!!!! GTO Noob Grape Vine - General Discussion 9 04-04-07 01:39AM


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 08:24PM.

Featured Ads
Ken's Speed & Machine
Mayhem Turbocharging

Carter Cryogenics.  What can we freeze for you?

Pacific Performance Racing

Central Virginia Machine Service.  Home of the Injun Engine!

All Pontiac Engine Kits

Larry's Auto Machine.  Full serivce auto, marine machine shop, domestic and foreign.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2007 PontiacZone.com
Page generated in 0.12809 seconds with 44 queries