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Old 10-18-09, 06:29PM   #1
Big Speed
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Default Tiger Heads

Gach , I hate to correct you , but I will to a certain degree. No you can't buy John Langer's heads , or Scott Rex's heads with an average pricetag. But you CAN buy a Tiger head , with an average price tag that will make close to 1,100 h.p. . Frank has offered , and would still offer , to sell his heads right off the engine in his car...you can be there when he takes them off. Because they are the same head that ANYONE can buy from All Pontiac. I did CNC programs for this full port design...it's the only one that there is a cookie cutter for. There is NO welding , NO relocation , NO epoxy. The current Tiger has an int. valve location that is .050" moved toward cylinder center compared to DCI's original design...this happened years ago. In the PRODUCTION heads this has been the only power advantage change. Rex's and Langer's heads were purchased AFTER this change had taken place.
Johnny
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Old 10-18-09, 07:34PM   #2
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Gach , I could supply you with the heads and intake package. But I'd rather not start a price war on here. Let's just say that Frank's engine is the test bed for all his products and his manifold he's currently using has very little work done to it.(Tiger) and we have gone 4.86 @143 in the 1/8th.(Go ahead with the calculators ) We've been trying to sort "details" about this combo to fine tune the induction package including the hood scoop. But the package will be good for 1,100 h.p. all said and done. Add the options up on their website under cylinder heads CNC Full Port. that's the same head.

Let me just say one thing: This thread is NOT about promotion of any All Pontiac product , it's just an open discussion. So I don't feel we should take this part any further. Johnny
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Old 10-26-09, 03:32PM   #3
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I got to take a peek at the Tiger intake at Pontiac Heaven earlier this year and its a Very Nice Intake, Infact i'd like to know your thoughts on Producing a version that fits "smaller" engines for the average Bracket racer or Big Cube street cars Kinda like AP's street package vs their race top end package, One that will Beat a Victor with out dropping streetability, Right now i think its Perfect for the higher end race engines with Tigers But I see a Lot of Guys building Bigger and Bigger street engines always looking for more Power and a Proper Intake that fits E-heads, and other heads, that does not need to be ported to fit them better would be great IMO
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Old 10-26-09, 10:59PM   #4
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Hi 464GP69 , thanks for the post! We've often discussed were the market is on heads and manifold and it seems that your right! I think it would be great to create an "in between" manifold . However , the costs involved don't permit it just yet. In "bang for the buck" the Victor has quite a bit to offer .

There has been talk of some new products...but it's just in the talk stages right now. A "street" All Pontiac head is also being discussed (not Tiger). Something like a E-head but stronger out of the box , with adequate cross-section for larger street engines , would require a specific rocker kit , but have an almost stock port location in relationship to the deck . All Pontiac has been about serious parts for serious racers , but they may shift gears a bit. Again...just talk...don't hold me to it. Johnny
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Old 10-27-09, 01:40AM   #5
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Would be nice to have a street Tiger head, with out all the off set stuff
need.
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Old 10-28-09, 05:27PM   #6
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Awesome!
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Old 11-05-09, 08:50AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Speed View Post
Rex's and Langer's heads were purchased AFTER this change had taken place.
Johnny
That is 100% incorrect. I moved the valves in 2007 or 2008.
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Old 11-05-09, 10:26AM   #8
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Ditto John. We "made" special guides to move the intake valve over .060" for Dirty bird.

Jim
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Old 11-05-09, 11:37AM   #9
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Speaking of as produced from All Pontiac here guys! Not the stuff you've done on your own. We know about your heads John. Only some of us can actually buy them that way . The ORIGINAL "moved .050" valve guide location was done before Bob started machining the heads...now we have castings machined (only a few) that have the intake guide moved .100" from it's original location. Sound familiar John????
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Old 11-05-09, 12:07PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Speed View Post
Speaking of as produced from All Pontiac here guys! Not the stuff you've done on your own. We know about your heads John. Only some of us can actually buy them that way . The ORIGINAL "moved .050" valve guide location was done before Bob started machining the heads...now we have castings machined (only a few) that have the intake guide moved .100" from it's original location. Sound familiar John????
The castings that Rex has now on his motor were machined with the guide in stock location. Tony had to move them .100 like mine. I was just statng that my heads were not purchased after you moved the valve. All of the cores are the same, it just depends on how you "rub" them.
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Old 11-05-09, 02:48PM   #11
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So if you guys are moving the intake guide .100 how much is the exhaust guide getting moved?
In my application, zero, zilch, nada.
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Old 11-05-09, 03:23PM   #12
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Our heads, too, were "as produced" from AP. I still have the original "straight" guides we took out. The smaller cubes and blower made the .100" offset unnecessary for our particular application. .060" was enough. And again, ditto John, the exhaust location is fine.

I'm not John, but the Jesel system actually LIKED the move, as it made for LESS offset in the intake rocker. We used a .180" lifter instead of .200". The rocker still had plenty of contact with the valve tip.

FWIW

Jim
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Old 11-05-09, 03:40PM   #13
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The Jesel rocker lined up just fine with the valve moved.
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Old 11-05-09, 05:29PM   #14
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O.K. , I guess we're all on the same page now . From DCI's original design...we moved the intake guide .050" toward cylinder center back in 2006 or so. Since then , there have been a handfull of sets that had the guide moved an ADDITIONAL .050". A few sets went to Bischoff and we have a couple of sets that are yet untouched...except R&D. We have several R&D heads with valve guides in different postitions , both intake and exhaust. None of which have made it to a running engine...YET. The catalog heads were the first priority. Frank has been wanting to race what he sells to any customer, so we had to concentrate on that first. Yor right John...Rex's current heads needed the valve guide moved...it was supposed to be done...but was'nt. Real strong mid-lift when we moved the valve again! We were supposed to try these on Frank's new dry sump engine...but who knows.
Samples I have here flow about 470-480. Cheers , Johnny
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Old 11-05-09, 05:37PM   #15
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I was wrong on the year, the heads that I got back in the fall of 2006 had the valve in the stock location. I moved them .100. We were able to get 480cfm out of them with KILLER mid range numbers. The exhaust are what they are. These were the heads that the "new head" valve spacing was modeled after.
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