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" TURBO BUILDS " Post your Turbo build-Up or any that you have in process

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Old 06-09-19, 09:53PM   #31
transtalon
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I'm not sure what you are asking can be answer But it looks like there are some guys that are telling you their experience. They are not engineers but they built one and found what it takes to make that kind of power. I believe you want someone to tell you that you're combo is good. Too much stroke on a turbo motor will cause too much torque down low and will run out of steam up top. Also if you do your own research, turbo motor does not like lightweight parts instead it likes it to be heavy and thick on the pistons and rods. I know you only wanted to run 15 psi but if your engine ever go past that incase of wastegate issues you'll be glad you built it for 25 psi. Turbo setup is not the same as N/A that likes lightweight parts. You should post your questions in Yellow Bullet.com to seek the answers that you were looking for. I see your piston top and it seemed similar on my JE but my top is a lot lower than yours. That's good that you had the top coated. I would get a cam with 250-256 @.050 duration for a 6000 rpm power band.
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Old 06-09-19, 10:18PM   #32
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Well, really isnít any specís. Itís whats evolved over the years, of known factors,
What you looking to Achieve just not going to happen. Pardon the pun ( but itís not rocket science ) low nickel content, poorly designed lifter area, nothing to tie two blanks together, mid and front plate, lightest rotating assembly. Another big factor stock cast iron cranks had allot of flex attributing to block distortion.

Of cruse you know all that already, good luck in your hunt. When I ran stock block the hunt was on, aluminum rods canít get any lighter, Like I said SBC .927 pins, JE pistons was lightest pistons I could fine. Allowed crank weight to be reduced from 70 lbs to 65 lbs. Front plate, mid plate, always kept it around 650 hp shifting at 5500 rpms. Add another 50-75 hp which inevitably incases rpm level. Went through 3 blocks.

Another big factor was thin cylinder walls cursing even more distortion. You put all those factors together you still have a time bomb. Personally I think your wasting your time trying to come up with research thatís been proven over the last 30 years. You already have a very heavy rotating Assembly. Lowering rpm level is not going to help you. Your just spinning your wheels.
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Old 06-09-19, 10:25PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transtalon View Post
I'm not sure what you are asking can be answer But it looks like there are some guys that are telling you their experience. They are not engineers but they built one and found what it takes to make that kind of power. I believe you want someone to tell you that you're combo is good. Too much stroke on a turbo motor will cause too much torque down low and will run out of steam up top. Also if you do your own research, turbo motor does not like lightweight parts instead it likes it to be heavy and thick on the pistons and rods. I know you only wanted to run 15 psi but if your engine ever go past that incase of wastegate issues you'll be glad you built it for 25 psi. Turbo setup is not the same as N/A that likes lightweight parts. You should post your questions in Yellow Bullet.com to seek the answers that you were looking for. I see your piston top and it seemed similar on my JE but my top is a lot lower than yours. That's good that you had the top coated. I would get a cam with 250-256 @.050 duration for a 6000 rpm power band.
Very good info !
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Old 06-09-19, 11:07PM   #34
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I hurt my 461 a while back, it is pump gas, It accidentally hit 18 psi on a 10psi tune, lifted 2 ring lands, this was in about a second maybe two. By the time I lifted it was already hurt. Now I have turbo pistons, had the car go lean cause of another issue, but I now have a cheap electronic boost controller, it just opens the gate full and you loose boost if it goes over a certain a/f you set.
I have not had the chance to turn my car up been happy with the 700-750 on the street. I bet most people with the proper tune and sticky tires will break a lot of other chit before the motor.
I have a mid plate, no front plate and good poly mounts too. The street is forgiving, a good prepped track will find the weak link of your car.
So much comes into play, gearing, transmission, weight of the car, how the car launches ( straight or the a body twist), how fast the boost ramps.....
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Old 06-11-19, 12:47PM   #35
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I hurt my 461 a while back, it is pump gas, It accidentally hit 18 psi on a 10psi tune, lifted 2 ring lands, this was in about a second maybe two. By the time I lifted it was already hurt. Now I have turbo pistons, had the car go lean cause of another issue, but I now have a cheap electronic boost controller, it just opens the gate full and you loose boost if it goes over a certain a/f you set.
I have not had the chance to turn my car up been happy with the 700-750 on the street. I bet most people with the proper tune and sticky tires will break a lot of other chit before the motor.
I have a mid plate, no front plate and good poly mounts too. The street is forgiving, a good prepped track will find the weak link of your car.
So much comes into play, gearing, transmission, weight of the car, how the car launches ( straight or the a body twist), how fast the boost ramps.....

I was always under the impression the Mid plate and front plate went hand in hand. How long have you been running the mid plate/poly mount combination? I was also thinking of doing similar and running solid mounts with front and rear plates... The intent is to use the frame of the vehicle to reinforce the block externally at the front/center/rear... That should eliminate or minimize greatly the "twisting" forces from the equation.


SPEED SAFE, NICK
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Old 06-11-19, 10:30PM   #36
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I absolutely agree with the Human factor being a very difficult variable that would be nearly impossible to measure. However with enough data points, a story would unfold even with those variables.

I have a difficult time seeing the logic in suggesting that this is something that can not be predicted with any kind a math when its literally never been attempted... at least I dont see where its been attempted. Statistics and trends exist in everything everywhere. Sure, their may be a large window/tolerance as many are suggesting... however it does exist in the form of a number... Such information would be useful to know.

I guess I just assumed people knew what they where putting into their engines and would have things like rotational weights jotted down someplace. I never thought for a second such a simple question would incite such emotion. (not aimed at you)

I know its a lot to ask for. LOL

Anyway, I guess Pontiac Blocks are held together with copious amounts of FM. (Fking Magic) LOL
I been running pontiacs for a looooong time. And built many engines. And have enough technological professional experience.
Why waste time on such a venture ?
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Old 06-11-19, 11:06PM   #37
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Having weights donít mean anything if you have nothing to compare them to. Iíd have to write a chapter to explain. Most buy recommended rod or piston ( just like you did ) then have it balanced. Then ask very questions your asking.

For example a Crower Billet rod is lighter then day a Scat forged rod but would you pay the price for Crower rod. BME aluminum is lighter then both, but most wont pay $1300.00 for a BME rod. Same goes for pistons right down the line.

So thereís no data. The real data on how much a stock block will take has been Compiled over 40 year history of Pontiac Racing. Yeah your going to hear how XYZ made 1000-1200 hp but were are they definitely not showing up at the drag strips, thatís because those motors/blocks havenít lasted very long, and they guys who built them definitely arenít going to be embarrassed by telling how long the lasted. They simple disparate.
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Old 06-11-19, 11:11PM   #38
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Having weights don’t mean anything if you have nothing to compare them to. I’d have to write a chapter to explain. Most buy recommended rod or piston ( just like you did ) then have it balanced. Then ask very questions your asking. With out having done any research then asked later

For example a Crower Billet rod is lighter then day a Scat forged rod but would you pay the price for Crower rod. BME aluminum is lighter then both, but most wont pay $1300.00 for a BME rod. Same goes for pistons right down the line.

So there’s no data. The real data on how much a stock block will take has been Compiled over 40 year history of Pontiac Racing. Yeah your going to hear how XYZ made 1000-1200 hp but were are they definitely not showing up at the drag strips, that’s because those motors/blocks haven’t lasted very long, and they guys who built them definitely aren’t going to be embarrassed by telling how long the lasted. They simple disparate.
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Old 06-11-19, 11:22PM   #39
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I been running pontiacs for a looooong time. And built many engines. And have enough technological professional experience.
Why waste time on such a venture ?
It would be interesting and fun to see what people have and have had going on within their engines... and it would also be interesting to see what internal stressors the blocks where experiencing when they gave out. And there is value in statistics. It absolutely would not be a wasted effort.

Its all good... Ive already considered this a run away post...
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Old 06-11-19, 11:37PM   #40
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Having weights don’t mean anything if you have nothing to compare them to. I’d have to write a chapter to explain. Most buy recommended rod or piston ( just like you did ) then have it balanced. Then ask very questions your asking. With out having done any research then asked later

For example a Crower Billet rod is lighter then day a Scat forged rod but would you pay the price for Crower rod. BME aluminum is lighter then both, but most wont pay $1300.00 for a BME rod. Same goes for pistons right down the line.

So there’s no data. The real data on how much a stock block will take has been Compiled over 40 year history of Pontiac Racing. Yeah your going to hear how XYZ made 1000-1200 hp but were are they definitely not showing up at the drag strips, that’s because those motors/blocks haven’t lasted very long, and they guys who built them definitely aren’t going to be embarrassed by telling how long the lasted. They simple disparate.
LOL yeah Ive seen more than a few trailer queens that have never made it to the track... However, those engines that are still running and pushing alleged limitations would have differences between them that could show trend data, not with vague HP limitations but with inertia force limitations which is a much more accurate and specific number to use than HP. Using HP does not get into any type of stressors the block is enduring. 700HP from one block could have completely different inertia forces than 700HP from another block... Same HP however the inertia forces would be completely different due to the weights of components, stroke and overall combination....

So when someone says, the 455 block should not be pushed over 750HP... what does that mean? The HP is not splitting the blocks... Its the inertia forces doing the dirty deed.

Multiple individual combinations of differing weights would tell an overall tale. The more information collected the more reliable the data would be. So the variable weights and RPMs would lead to an overall tolerance. Even with the human factor the more inputs the clearer the picture would become.

BUT, the consensus here is its a bad idea to share engine combination weights because the engine gods will become angered. Apparently this was really a bad question to ask this group. Its a wasted effort, not because of the idea but due to the lack of interest in those being asked... Which is ok... It is what it is.
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Old 06-12-19, 12:41AM   #41
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Inertia force, good luck finding that data on Pontiac blocks. With out beating a dead horse, it all boils down to quality of material blocks are made of. Even if you had that kind of information how would it relate to a 40 year old block. Donít take this wrong way, but the response your giving are like a insult on logic.

Hereís why...every possible combination has been tired. Lightest crank...Rods pistons...mid plate..Front plate, steel main caps, block harden ( filling block ) to no avail. Your dealing with a 40 year old butter block.
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Old 06-12-19, 09:33AM   #42
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So far I have been running that about 1.5 years about 2000 miles. My car is an A body so it likes to pull the left side ft tire higher than the r/f. ( a body twist)
I now installed an Anti roll bar from Spohn. The car lifts dead even. I run low boost because the street can not handle high boost. 8-10 psi for a long time. Never had an issue besides that 1 I stated. Transmissions and rears are another subject. When you make high h.p. you find out the week links of the car.
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Old 06-12-19, 06:30PM   #43
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So far I have been running that about 1.5 years about 2000 miles. My car is an A body so it likes to pull the left side ft tire higher than the r/f. ( a body twist)
I now installed an Anti roll bar from Spohn. The car lifts dead even. I run low boost because the street can not handle high boost. 8-10 psi for a long time. Never had an issue besides that 1 I stated. Transmissions and rears are another subject. When you make high h.p. you find out the week links of the car.
Sounds like a ton of fun!
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Old 06-12-19, 06:35PM   #44
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Inertia force, good luck finding that data on Pontiac blocks. With out beating a dead horse, it all boils down to quality of material blocks are made of. Even if you had that kind of information how would it relate to a 40 year old block. Donít take this wrong way, but the response your giving are like a insult on logic.

Hereís why...every possible combination has been tired. Lightest crank...Rods pistons...mid plate..Front plate, steel main caps, block harden ( filling block ) to no avail. Your dealing with a 40 year old butter block.
Honestly its not an insult to logic... Its a simple question with simple answers that could give some great data. And I would not call the word of mouth "Logic" because the word of mouth has more question marks than anything else.

I get it, Ive insulted peoples personal feelings for asking the simple question. Instead of attempting to fix my question, its easier to just answer or dont.

Ive already moved on... Ill be more careful in my selection of questions as not to challenge anyone to think outside the box...
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Old 06-12-19, 06:59PM   #45
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Like to see if you come up with any answers to your question, be interesting. No you didnít hurt my feelings at all. Feel bad I couldnít help. I just kind of understand they way was explained by and Engineer.
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