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Old 05-12-19, 01:19PM   #31
JHanko
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To answer some previous questions: I didn't contact AllPontiac, as I got the block from Butler. I notified Butler and was told that this is a problem everyone faces and they offered remedies similar to those already posted here. They said AllPontiac is aware of it and should have redesigned the rear cap, but haven't yet. I am not using a crank scraper. I am using a windage tray, but it bolts to the main caps, not the sealing surface, so nothing is spacing the pan further away. Yes, I was using the one piece pan gasket. Butler confirmed this gasket will not work, but not until after I tried it. They said nothing when I ordered it from them, and they knew I was buying it for the IAII block. I guess that's what bothers me the most. All of the well known issues are not noted anywhere to see before you buy. No where does it mention that oil pans don't fit correctly, or that installing the lower dipstick tube on an IAII block with a windage tray requires bending, cutting, grinding and welding. Ramair Restorations makes no mention to the fact that the long branch manifolds wont fit the IAII block without serious grinding, even though they are well aware of it.
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Old 05-12-19, 01:29PM   #32
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I would guess that virtually no one would suspect someone would run cast iron exhaust on a aftermarket block except maybe you and I.Headers would go on 99.999 percent of aftermarket block.Tom
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Old 05-12-19, 03:21PM   #33
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JHanko ,
Now you are ready to write the supplemental instruction book for the IA II block.

Dragncar,
Service tip for removing 9" carrier.
Next time yo have the carrier out
on the flange for the 9" removable carrier you can drill & tap extra holes in the carrier flange for installing what is referred to as "jacking or forcing screws" .
The screw holes ,depending on how many are desired need to be spaced at even intervals.

2 @ 180*
3 @ 120*
4 @ 90*
The screws should be the same size as the retaining studs or bolts that fasten the carrier to the housing.
If using and aluminum center the threaded holes should either be helicoil'ed or actual threaded inserts installed.
You run the screws down equally .The screws contact the housing flange surface and help to force the the two halves apart. Heat, wedges ,mallets ,BFH & a block of wood etc must still be used in the process but the screws really help as an aid to putting some opposing force between both parts.Should not require a 2000lb pull to do unless you just need the come along to put some additional pre-load on the assembly.
I work on industrial pumps that are set up like this and it really helps to speed up the process when separating the 2 halves of a pump impeller housing to service a seal & impeller. Same principle. Do not worry about the screw hole leaking , the gasket / sealer will seal them.
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Old 05-12-19, 07:01PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHanko View Post
To answer some previous questions: I didn't contact AllPontiac, as I got the block from Butler. I notified Butler and was told that this is a problem everyone faces and they offered remedies similar to those already posted here. They said AllPontiac is aware of it and should have redesigned the rear cap, but haven't yet. I am not using a crank scraper. I am using a windage tray, but it bolts to the main caps, not the sealing surface, so nothing is spacing the pan further away. Yes, I was using the one piece pan gasket. Butler confirmed this gasket will not work, but not until after I tried it. They said nothing when I ordered it from them, and they knew I was buying it for the IAII block. I guess that's what bothers me the most. All of the well known issues are not noted anywhere to see before you buy. No where does it mention that oil pans don't fit correctly, or that installing the lower dipstick tube on an IAII block with a windage tray requires bending, cutting, grinding and welding. Ramair Restorations makes no mention to the fact that the long branch manifolds wont fit the IAII block without serious grinding, even though they are well aware of it.
Here what we got, amateurs in the aftermarket producing parts. I bought my block 10 years ago and they still havenít corrected rear main cap issue.
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Old 05-12-19, 07:20PM   #35
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Hereís another little story for you, my block has recess caps, like BBC blocks. Thatís why itís called IA11, second gen redesign. But hereís the problem NO dowels to keep caps from moving. I was lucky in a sense because the guys running the new design were having issues with caps moving. Lucky for me my block sat at machine shop for 3 months, while they keep telling me stories why the hadnít touched it yet.

It was a serious problem main cap moving, along with other caps moving...there was all kinds of excuses, on why. Pontiac Dude was one of them who had this issue.

Long story short, when my machine shop finally got my block done, all they had to do was hone it for new pistons. And hone lifter bores. I asked them to dowel my block, they said they didnít have capability to do so.

Finally found a machine shop 2 hours away that could do it, so it now has dowels even the main cap.
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Old 05-12-19, 07:40PM   #36
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3100.00 for block, $1500.00 dollars later, it was only supposed to take a .002-.003 hone to fit pistons, I ended up paying for a full bore job, hone for lifters, that would go but haft way down. Then have dowels installed. Oil gallery cleaned up, a few other things.
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Old 05-12-19, 09:44PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprint250 View Post
JHanko ,
Now you are ready to write the supplemental instruction book for the IA II block.

Dragncar,
Service tip for removing 9" carrier.
Next time yo have the carrier out
on the flange for the 9" removable carrier you can drill & tap extra holes in the carrier flange for installing what is referred to as "jacking or forcing screws" .
The screw holes ,depending on how many are desired need to be spaced at even intervals.

2 @ 180*
3 @ 120*
4 @ 90*
The screws should be the same size as the retaining studs or bolts that fasten the carrier to the housing.
If using and aluminum center the threaded holes should either be helicoil'ed or actual threaded inserts installed.
You run the screws down equally .The screws contact the housing flange surface and help to force the the two halves apart. Heat, wedges ,mallets ,BFH & a block of wood etc must still be used in the process but the screws really help as an aid to putting some opposing force between both parts.Should not require a 2000lb pull to do unless you just need the come along to put some additional pre-load on the assembly.
I work on industrial pumps that are set up like this and it really helps to speed up the process when separating the 2 halves of a pump impeller housing to service a seal & impeller. Same principle. Do not worry about the screw hole leaking , the gasket / sealer will seal them.

I am very familiar with it. Millwright here, bearings for edgers have 2 threaded holes in them. We started doing that 30 years ago ourselves and when the bearing reps came around the mill we showed them what we were up to and they started doing on them in the factory.
I did drill one hole for 5/16 even though the holes are 3/8. My housing is a Moser aluminum, just put it in a hour ago. I should have taken a pic of it all together. Its a nice piece, car port to us guys. There was one spot I felt good about drilling and tapping a hole. I would have been to close to other holes on the rest of it.
I figure I can put enough pressure with the one to break the seal with maybe just a little bit of pressure from the come along if needed. Strange units now come with 2 holes drilled and tapped.
I used plain Permatex Red High Heat silicone. The Grey was on it last time and it is tougher than the red, I like the grey a lot for most things. But no more Right S there for me.
I figured if I can get one side broke loose I can pry a little and get the rest.
One thing that made it harder is I used 5/16 flat washers against the aluminum housing. The milled part around the stud holes is not big enough for standard 3/8 flat washers. 5/16 flat washers fit snugly on a 3/8 stud also fit perfectly in the flat spot.. And 2 fit more snug than the others making the problem much worse.
I found some grade 8 3/8 flat washers at work with the same outside dia as a standard 5/16 washer and snagged 10 for my project.
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Old 05-12-19, 09:46PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gach View Post
Here what we got, amateurs in the aftermarket producing parts. I bought my block 10 years ago and they still havenít corrected rear main cap issue.
So, in short what will I have to do special when I do my IA2 ? I have the spacer for the timing cover. I assume I will be using a extra cork gasket and the Right Stuff back there.
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Old 05-12-19, 09:48PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjs44 View Post
I would guess that virtually no one would suspect someone would run cast iron exhaust on a aftermarket block except maybe you and I.Headers would go on 99.999 percent of aftermarket block.Tom
I thinks its awesome. I would love to see some 310cfm RAIV heads and ex manifolds on a IA2.
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Old 05-12-19, 11:40PM   #40
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Dragncar ,
Glad it worked out for you.
Yeah those press fit washers didn't help matters any eh?
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Old 05-12-19, 11:53PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprint250 View Post
Dragncar ,
Glad it worked out for you.
Yeah those press fit washers didn't help matters any eh?
It was one in particular, right on Fing top. When I check the clearance on a 3/8 bolt afterword that washer had very little clearance.

I popped it loose with winch had dead blow but that washer gave me more fits.



BTW, why can I not upload a pic. I can do it on PY ?
I know PY used to have the same "look" on ts website. Is this one too old to allow a file that size ?
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Old 05-13-19, 12:18AM   #42
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If picture size to big it won’t let you up load it. It has to be resized. Lets say it’s 3040 x 4230, it needs to be resized to 480 x 640. Picture that big take up a ton of data, which incases cost of running this site. Now if it’s uploaded to another site you can copy it and past it here. Which doesn’t use any data.

There’s tons of programs and apps that will let you resize any photo . Resize it to 480 x 740. Or just give me the link to that picture and I’ll do it for you.
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Old 05-13-19, 12:20AM   #43
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"Here what we got, amateurs in the aftermarket producing parts. I bought my block 10 years ago and they still haven’t corrected rear main cap issue."

I have to give credit to All Pontiac though.
When the IA-1 was getting a bad rap and basically doomed to die because of its QC issues All Pontiac bought the failing original "IA-1 Chief Many Horses" block patterns and tooling and worked out a lot of the quality kinks that had plagued the original design. Biggest move was to get the block produced and machined here in the USA.

All Pontiac does publish their instructions for the block in PDF format that you can download. It does not disclose all the "known" issues that are being talked about here.
They do register & dowel the mains now.


I went to MR-1 land and they do not display have available for download any machining instructions for that block that I could find.
You probably have to buy one or call KRE to get those details?
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Last edited by sprint250 : 05-13-19 at 12:48AM.
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Old 05-13-19, 12:22AM   #44
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I used to allow it but it got way out of hand. Some time it would rise the price of operating this site $100.00 a month.
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Old 05-13-19, 12:26AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gach View Post
If picture size to big it wonít let you up load it. It has to be resized. Lets say itís 3040 x 4230, it needs to be resized to 480 x 640. Picture that big take up a ton of data, which incases cost of running this site. Now if itís uploaded to another site you can copy it and past it here. Which doesnít use any data.

Thereís tons of programs and apps that will let you resize any photo . Resize it to 480 x 740. Or just give me the link to that picture and Iíll do it for you.
OK, I have done the "link" thing a long time ago and copied and pasted but need instructions. Been a while.
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