PONTIAC ZONE TECH FORUMS
 

Go Back   PONTIAC ZONE TECH FORUMS >
Engine Tech
> Grape Vine - General Discussion
User Name
Password

Grape Vine - General Discussion Shop Talk - Bench Racing, No political or religious topics are allowed.

sponser links

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-11-09, 04:36PM   #1
Zedo
prodigal son
 
Zedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 4,091
Default Mother's Day/car show tragic accident

This accident occurred 2 miles down the road from my mother-in-laws home while we were eating Mother's Day Sunday dinner, in my home town, yesterday.

http://www.timesleader.com/news/latest/Dea.html

yesterday here in my home town, there was a car show in the parking lot of a large local business/restaurant- a Chevy Nova stopped on the highway was waiting to make a left hand turn across traffic and turn into the car show- an SUV hit the rear of the Nova, hitting the gas tank and setting it on fire- the driver of the Nova was trapped inside when the doors were jammed- the car burned and killed the driver

the driver of the SUV is in the local hospital

the gas tanks on these old cars are NOT safe- they are only held up by 2 straps cinched into the trunk sheetmetal. The gas tanks and filler necks are metal, a rear end collision with today's higher SUV's drives the filler neck into the gas tank- sparks set it off on fire.

Today's newer cars have plastic gas tanks that are ahead of the rear axle, and rubber filler necks- much safer.

Just something to be aware of- don't carry a full tank of gas when tooling around to car shows, the track, cruising, etc. 5 gallons or less is plenty, to be safe. A Firebird will hold 18 gallons, a GTO will hold 21.5 gallons, and a full size Bonneville/Catalina holds something like 25-30 gallons. Fill that up and get hit, you're toast.

Also I'd like to see an extra support bar across the frame rails, below the tank, or maybe even 2, to hold the tank up in case the straps break, it will fall down on the safety bars.
Zedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-09, 07:30PM   #2
ponchospidel
Drag Racer
 
ponchospidel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: noblesville, IN
Posts: 97
Default

sad to say the least.
but a full tank of fuel will cause less of an explosion than a 1/2 or 1/4 tank of fuel.
not sure what you are basing your advise on??
ponchospidel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-09, 07:51PM   #3
region warrior
Drag Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: valparasio, in.
Posts: 420
Default

Thats terrible.

Looks like a real hard hit.
I've fought dozens of car-n-trucks fires over the years.
Even had them blow out the rear tires and bumper absorbers, but never had a tank explode.
__________________
Mike Wachter

Screw the body work...lets go race!

http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/b...oshop/?start=0
region warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-09, 08:24PM   #4
Gach
Administrator
 
Gach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ....
Posts: 19,505
Default

Looks like you said...hit pretty hard..Sad.

Honey'/Mom. I'm going to the car show..see you in a couple of hours.
Hour later the phone rings...this is the Ashley police there's been
a crash and I'm sorry to say your husband/son has pass away.
__________________
The things they hide, the way they spin things, the excuses that they make and the things they omit.
Gach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-09, 12:10AM   #5
g_man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Winchester, IL
Posts: 456
Default

That is real sad and I am sorry to hear about it. Like pocho said you are better off with a full tank, but who wants all that gas going up in a spill from a ruptured tank? I saw a guy driving in a Chevrolet truck right in front of us hit a sign post (one of the big cement ones that support our over head signs) over the highway. That was highway 45 going through Houston at West Little York It was one with the tanks on the side and outside of the frame that had that major lawsuit (like the Pinto did as well). We were the first ones to stop and the whole driver’s side of the truck burst into flames. I thought that only happened in the movies. Since I was the first one there I tried to open the passenger door as the entire divers side was in flames. The window on the passenger’s side started to get foggy from the heat. I was unable to open the door another man grabbed me by the waist and started pulling on me while I held onto that door. We did not get that door open, and yes he never got out. After seeing that all I can say is it's your life and it is not a good way to go. I say this because I know I am guilty of not giving safety equipment enough due. I would rather get a bigger cam or carb rather than invest in a helmet, fire suite, or even a plastic or safety devices for fuel or for myself. Do not spoil it all because you do not want to pay the money or like me "That crap is not going to happen to me" attitude! That accident changed me as that man I did not know, in my mind did not need to die. We are never prepared for something of that magnitude, but when it happens right next to us, with eyes wide open, hopefully we do get humbled and realize how quick we can be called!
g_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-09, 02:09PM   #6
region warrior
Drag Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: valparasio, in.
Posts: 420
Default

Lot of us firefighters carry spring punch's for door glass.
Spider cracks it unlike an axe that blows it unto the victim.
And either a large very sharp knife or razor knife for cut'n seat belts.
__________________
Mike Wachter

Screw the body work...lets go race!

http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/b...oshop/?start=0
region warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-09, 06:57PM   #7
Zedo
prodigal son
 
Zedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 4,091
Default obituary

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/tim...&pid=127202635

Craig Allen Lear ShareE-mail Visit Guest Book
Craig Allen Lear, 64, of Mountain Top, passed away Sunday afternoon, May 10, 2009, as a result of a car accident.
Born July 8, 1944, in Berwick, he was a son of the late Orville and Ina Dorothy Chapin Lear.
Craig was a member of St. Jude’s Church, Mountain Top; Keystone Garage Club; and the Mountain Top Knights of Columbus. After retiring, he worked part time for Dino’s and DeNapoli’s in Mountain Top.
He was preceded in death by a sister, Beverly Winner Coxe; aunt Mary Arlene Winner Lear; and uncle Henry Lear.
Surviving are his wife, the former Helen Andes, with whom he would have celebrated his 25th wedding anniversary in November; son Richard; daughter Janel and her husband, Kyle, Guam; two beautiful grandchildren, Maddison and Kyle Jr.; brothers David and his wife, Florence, Nuangola Station; Robert and his wife, Ann, Salt Lake City, Utah; Dennis and his wife, Elizabeth, Mountain Top; Richard and his wife, Jane, Slocum Township; nieces, nephews, cousins, grand-nieces and grand-nephews.
Craig passed away doing what he loved most – car shows with his blue 1972 Chevy Nova. He will be very deeply missed by those who loved and knew him.
Funeral Service will be held Friday with a Mass of Christian Burial at 10 a.m. from St. Jude Church, Mountain Top. Friends are asked to go directly to the church Friday morning. Friends may call Thursday, from 5 to 8 p.m., at the McCune Funeral Home, 80 S. Mountain Blvd., Mountain Top.
In lieu of flowers, memorial donations, if desired, may be made to the SPCA of Luzerne County, 524 E. Main St., Fox Hill Road, Wilkes-Barre, PA 18702.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Export_Obit_TimesLeader_12lear_12lear.photo.obt_20090512.jpg
Views:	389
Size:	52.2 KB
ID:	19208  
Zedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-09, 07:14PM   #8
Zedo
prodigal son
 
Zedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 4,091
Default

I took a look at my 1970 Firebird today, the gas tank is right up against the rear tail panel. Then I took a look at my brother's 1968 GTO, his gas tank is a little bit further forward, but still pretty close to the rear edge of the car. We had to replace the tank in his car already, when he bought it, the previous owner had been rear ended and the filler neck was bent, and gas tank bowed, and trunk floor slightly bowed. Then I looked at my 2001 Chevy Monte Carlo, the gas tank is in front of the rear axle on the left side, it's plastic, and inboard of the frame rails. Take it for what it's worth- I'd not cruise these old cars around with full tanks of gas, you're sitting on a time bomb- because traffic is much heavier around here lately, for one thing- and the risk of accidents is more- and getting hit by an SUV, they're gonna knock the gas tank right out of your car and split it open- one spark and kaboom, especially if you have an electric fuel pump in the back (both my GTO and Firebird have electric, rear frame mounted pumps)

here's today's news coverage of the Nova/SUV accident, my friend told me the video footage on the news of the car actually burning was a real horror. Another person who was driving by literally seconds before it happened, saw the Nova stopped in the lane, went past it, then heard "kaboom" and saw parts and a fireball going up in the air- they pulled over 1/8 mile away from it, called 9-11, and could hear everyone at the car show screaming in horror from that far away, that's how loud they were screaming- the entire crowd was screaming bloody murder.

what a harrowing incident
Zedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-09, 07:17PM   #9
Zedo
prodigal son
 
Zedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 4,091
Default

accident follow up today in the paper, showing rear view of the Chevy Nova, and the SUV

http://www.timesleader.com/news/Fata...5-12-2009.html

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	mva02_05-12-2009_CQAO202.jpg
Views:	9329
Size:	94.5 KB
ID:	19210   Click image for larger version

Name:	mva01_05-12-2009_CQAO1VV.jpg
Views:	761
Size:	114.9 KB
ID:	19211  
Zedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-09, 07:18PM   #10
Zedo
prodigal son
 
Zedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 4,091
Default

Fatal crash on 309 brings safety queries
State lawmakers wonder if ways exist to make the state highway through Ashley safer.

By Edward Lewis elewis@timesleader.com
Staff Writer

ASHLEY – The death of a man in a fiery crash on state Route 309 on Sunday has state lawmakers asking if the state highway can be made safer.

click image to enlarge

The wrecked SUV involved in Sunday’s fatal crash sits on state Route 309 in front of Bentley’s.

PETE G. WILCOX/THE TIMES LEADER

click image to enlarge

Lear


Select images available for purchase in the
Times Leader Photo Store

The Luzerne County Coroner’s Office identified the man as 64-year-old Craig Lear, of Alberdeen Road, Wright Township.

Lear, driving a Chevrolet Nova, was stopped in the left northbound lane of the four-lane undivided roadway at about 2:30 p.m. Sunday waiting to turn into the parking lot of Bentley’s restaurant where a classic car show was taking place. His vehicle was struck in the rear by a Chevrolet Trailblazer driven by Jean Herron, 77, of Memorial Park Road, Fairmont Township, police said.

Lear’s vehicle caught fire immediately after the crash. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

Herron was transported to Geisinger Wyoming Valley Medical Center in Plains Township, where she was listed in critical condition on Monday, according to a nursing supervisor.

Route 309 was closed for several hours on Sunday as police investigated the crash.

According to the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation’s Internet Traffic Monitoring System, approximately 7,800 vehicles travel north and 10,700 vehicles travel south each day in the area of the crash.

State lawmakers are planning to ask PennDOT to conduct a traffic study to determine if the highway can be made safer now that Bentley’s opened a few weeks ago.

“We plan on sitting down and exploring all options,” state Rep. John Yudichak, D-Plymouth Township, said. “I received, and I know my colleagues received, quite a few calls as a result of that fatality there over the weekend.”

Yudichak said he hopes the meeting takes place later this week.

“There are other issues on the road we’ll talk about with PennDOT, water and rock issues,” Yudichak said. “The fatality may warrant a traffic study to see if the roadway can be safer.”

The area where Sunday’s fatal crash occurred is near the northbound on-ramp to Interstate 81, and about 1/8 mile south of the southbound exit ramp. There is no turning lane into the restaurant lot for northbound traffic.

“Motorists who are stopped along that stretch of highway waiting to turn left are in serious danger,” Yudichak said in a prepared news release. “Other drivers coming around the curve have no warning that someone up ahead may be stopped. PennDOT needs to address this situation before any more lives are lost.”

The opening of Bentley’s, a combination restaurant, bar and banquet center, may create more traffic on the road, Yudichak said.

“Serious accidents have been a problem on this dangerous stretch of Route 309 for quite a while,” said state Rep. Eddie Day Pashinski, D-Wilkes-Barre. “We need to rectify this traffic pattern problem so that more lives are not lost.”
Zedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-09, 07:22PM   #11
Zedo
prodigal son
 
Zedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 4,091
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponchospidel View Post
sad to say the least.
but a full tank of fuel will cause less of an explosion than a 1/2 or 1/4 tank of fuel.
not sure what you are basing your advise on??

dude, the picture speaks for itself- with 3 gallons of gas, you have a fighting chance of getting out- with a full tank, you're toast- this car literally sent up like an atomic bomb, it threw parts and a fireball up in the air about 100 feet

http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/att...1&d=1242162782

my dad was in the Navy- they did fire test exhibitions- they'd start a fire inside 4 steel doors, that were attached to hinges at the top- they would feed in a gallon milk jug filled with gasoline, on a steel clothesline- when it got inside the doors, it would explode and blow the doors outward straight, that's how much force it has

send 2 gallons in, the explosion is even more

imagine 20 gallons going off at once- you have a mushroom cloud

more gas goes off with more force, than less gas- you're thinking of compression
Zedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-09, 09:16PM   #12
Mo Money
Pontiac Nut
 
Mo Money's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Willow grove Pa
Posts: 198
Default

I would focus on the 77yr old driving a SUV as being the problem. Hopefully the guy was knocked out from the impact. There was a lady that burned to death in a late model AUDI(1980's) not far from my house from a rear impact and roll. Another driver couldn't get her out in time. They could hear her screaming as the car burned. Pretty sad.

Newer Crown Vics (police cruisers) are know to pop when hit a high speed even with an inboard tank. There was a 20/20 episode(or similar show) about it.

Gas alone won't burn. You need O2 to get things going, hence the reason a gas combustion engine can run so rich it will stall. That being said, gas carries ALOT of energy.
Mo Money is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-09, 12:20AM   #13
Jagtec1
Drag Racer
 
Jagtec1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hatboro, PA
Posts: 294
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Money View Post
Gas alone won't burn. You need O2 to get things going, hence the reason a gas combustion engine can run so rich it will stall. That being said, gas carries ALOT of energy.
Gas vapor burns, not gas as a liquid. Mo is correct. If a tank were full, it is no more deadly or dangerous than a nearly empty tank. The tank placement is not good in most old cars. Zedo, you think the fire would have gone out if the tank were only 1/4 full?

This was an accident, could happen to anyone. Kiss your kids and your wife/husband when you leave the house, it could always be the last time.
__________________
www.spottsperformance.com
www.casualrestorationsinc.com
9.81 @ 136.39
2008 Ram Racing AMI #3
Jagtec1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-09, 01:05AM   #14
Mo Money
Pontiac Nut
 
Mo Money's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Willow grove Pa
Posts: 198
Default

crown Vic info...http://www.crownvictoriasafetyalert.com/purchases.html
Mo Money is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-09, 02:16PM   #15
Zedo
prodigal son
 
Zedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 4,091
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagtec1 View Post
Gas vapor burns, not gas as a liquid. Mo is correct. If a tank were full, it is no more deadly or dangerous than a nearly empty tank. .

you're wrong there, here's why- full tank will burn longer with larger fireball, and cover larger area, and have more explosive force, because it has more reserve fuel to burn longer

near empty tank will have smaller fireball and be easier to extinguish, less fuel to feed it, and smaller explosion

don't believe me ? then try this

take a 4 oz bottle of gas, put a wick in it, light it and smash it on a rock somewhere, see it go off

now take a 1 quart bottle of gas, do the same thing

BIG difference

now imagine your gas tank, with an 18 gallon tank of gas with a wick in it

why do you think the mafia used 55 gallon drums of gas, with a candle on them, to blow up buildings ? there would not be much of an effect with one quart of gas

a totally empty gas tank will explode too, just from fumes, but the fireball will go out almost immediately, no afterburn due to no fuel to feed it

you fellas need to crack open a high school physics book sometime, and look some stuff up- when the space shuttle needs more power, they make the gas tanks and nozzles bigger, not smaller

it's common sense

I was cleaning my mom's cellar years ago, and burning old furniture on her property (52 acres) about 100 feet away from her house- I poured 4 gallons of old dirty gas on the furniture, and lit it- the fireball/initial "poof" was so loud and hard, it shook the windows and floor in my mom's house- it shook the ground I was standing on

imagine if I had poured 20 gallons of gas on it

if I used a cup of gas, no one would even hear it
Zedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
USER REVIEW: Mothers Powerball A. X. User Reviews 13 04-08-11 10:39PM
New All Indoor Muscle Car Show and Swap in Chicago! Bashton Races - Shows - Swaps - Events 11 11-13-09 09:18AM
Don Imus Video..... FIREDup6975 Grape Vine - General Discussion 23 04-13-07 10:28AM


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 03:08PM.

Featured Ads
Ken's Speed & Machine
Mayhem Turbocharging

Carter Cryogenics.  What can we freeze for you?

Pacific Performance Racing

Central Virginia Machine Service.  Home of the Injun Engine!

All Pontiac Engine Kits

Larry's Auto Machine.  Full serivce auto, marine machine shop, domestic and foreign.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2007 PontiacZone.com
Page generated in 0.20872 seconds with 44 queries